To washer or not to washer

Muad'Dib · #1

I'm just curious, but how does Spyderco decide to use washers in a knife or not? Is it related to lock type? The lock-back type knives I have seem to be washerless, while all the liner-lock knives I have have washers. But the CS knives I have that use the Tri-Ad (which is similar to a lock-back) use washers.

rycen · #2

Excluding pinned SS models almost all spyderco have washers.

rycen · #3

I should add most pinned micarta models don't have washers.

vadel · #4

Stretch CF - washerless. Stretch FRN - washers onboard....
Military CTS-XHP - TWO bronze washers on each side...

rycen · #5

Fairly sure the stretch CF has washers.

matrixone976 · #6

my gen 4 native doesn't "feel" like that have washers in them. which sucks cause if it did id carry it more. i don't like how it drags on deployment as is.

DeathBySnooSnoo · #7

matrixone976 wrote:my gen 4 native doesn't "feel" like that have washers in them. which sucks cause if it did id carry it more. i don't like how it drags on deployment as is.

You might just need to give it a good clean and make sure that it is nice and centered. Mine was a bit rough, ut I gave it a really good clean, loosened all the screws and then re-centered the blade, making sure the scales were perfectly lined up and then tightened everything down. After that I used a teflon lube...and now the thing is just totally mint. smooth and slick.

The Deacon · #8

Stretch CF definitely has washers. Caly 3 does not and I'm pretty sure 3.5 doesn't have them either. Maker's preferences/abilities may enter into it. Have a miserable cold and my memory is not at its best today, but I can't recall any Moki models that use washers.

phillipsted · #9

rycen wrote:I should add most pinned micarta models don't have washers.

One of my gripes with the original micarta Goddard knives is exactly this. I bought a couple of the "Jr." models when they came out - and one of them is so hard to open, you can't do it with one hand. My guess is that the micarta slightly warped over the years because the screws for the clip are tapped right into the micarta.

I sent it to the Spydie Spa this year, but all they could do was soak it in oil overnight to try to loosen it up (it did, but only a bit). The pinned construction obviously prevents any adjustment - but keeps the knife design nice and slender...

TedP

phillipsted · #10

I also had kind of a strange thing happen with my G10 DragonFly2. After I bought it, I was breaking it in, opening and closing it over and over (love the term someone coined, "Knifesterbating").

All of a sudden a silicon bronze washer started working its way out of the pivot area, wedged between the blade and the scale. Since the knife was brand new, I didn't try to disassemble, I sent it back to the Spa for a look-see. As it turns out, there was an extra washer that fell into the pivot area and got trapped. During assembly, the pivots were adjusted so that the knife worked smoothly, so it passed QC.

No harm was done to the blade or scales. The Spa took out the extra washer, tightened the pivot, lubricated it, and sent it back. Good as new.

I'm not dinging Spyderco here - stuff happens - and they did a great job handling the warranty issue. I mostly wanted them to see it for future QC processes.

I still found this an interesting event.

TedP

redyps04 · #11

phillipsted wrote: My guess is that the micarta slightly warped over the years because the screws for the clip are tapped right into the micarta.

Micarta can warp?!? This is news to me.

phillipsted · #12

I also had kind of a strange thing happen with my G10 DragonFly2. After I bought it, I was breaking it in, opening and closing it over and over (love the term someone coined, "Knifesterbating").

All of a sudden a silicon bronze washer started working its way out of the pivot area, wedged between the blade and the scale. Since the knife was brand new, I didn't try to disassemble, I sent it back to the Spa for a look-see. As it turns out, there was an extra washer that fell into the pivot area and got trapped. During assembly, the pivots were adjusted so that the knife worked smoothly, so it passed QC.

No harm was done to the blade or scales. The Spa took out the extra washer, tightened the pivot, lubricated it, and sent it back. Good as new.

I'm not dinging Spyderco here - stuff happens - and they did a great job handling the warranty issue. I mostly wanted them to see it for future QC processes.

I still found this an interesting event.

TedP

DemskeetSkeet · #13

Just a guess but does it have to do with liners or not?

I know steel against steel would create a non-smooth action when opening and closing a knife.

The UKPK's, the FRN Delica/Endura's don't have liners?

If they don't then I would imagine they wouldn't need liners because it's FRN against Steel for the open/close action.

BAL · #14

matrixone976 wrote:my gen 4 native doesn't "feel" like that have washers in them. which sucks cause if it did id carry it more. i don't like how it drags on deployment as is.

Maybe you need to clean your knife and shoot a little lubrication in there to loosen it up if it dragging. Also, Welcome.

rodloos · #15

My Native III is the one Spyderco knife which was quite difficult for me to open one-handed, I think partly due to the strength of the lock-back spring pressing against the blade, and partly due to the blade rubbing on the FRN sides as it opens. After a thousand or more open/close cycles, and putting oil on the pivot, it only improved marginally.

I finally cleaned it out and put Teflon lube in the pivot, which I think made it quite serviceable, even if not among my smoothest opening knives. I worked with it because I really like the feel of the knife and find the handle very comfortable for my hands.

DCDesigns · #16

Knifesterbating... bloody hilarious... such a perfect term!

Dan Barnes · #17

DemskeetSkeet wrote:Just a guess but does it have to do with liners or not?

I know steel against steel would create a non-smooth action when opening and closing a knife.

The UKPK's, the FRN Delica/Endura's don't have liners?

If they don't then I would imagine they wouldn't need liners because it's FRN against Steel for the open/close action.

Unlined FRN handles have built in washers, most often a series of concentric raised circles around the pivot.

Steel on steel can work fine. The Caly 3 and 3.5 have full steel liners and no washers. Never took one apart to find out, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least some pinned all stainless models have no washers either.

Evil D · #18

I've always felt like washers have a negative impact on pivot strength, since not having washers creates more surface area between the liners and the blade...but, it's hard to argue with how smooth they make the pivot. I also greatly prefer having them if for no other reason than not getting circle scratches at the tang.

JNewell · #19

I don't think so - the Caly3 and Caly3.5 have liners and no washers.

DemskeetSkeet wrote:Just a guess but does it have to do with liners or not?

I know steel against steel would create a non-smooth action when opening and closing a knife.

The UKPK's, the FRN Delica/Endura's don't have liners?

If they don't then I would imagine they wouldn't need liners because it's FRN against Steel for the open/close action.

Evil D · #20

My Caly 3 is pretty dang smooth...i think if the lock was a liner or compression lock, it would be almost as smooth as any washer'ed pivot i've handled. I do keep it lubed with dry lube though.