do most of Spyderco's new models seem like they are priced incredibly high? Now, before everyone blasts me about labor, materials, and "then don't buy them" quotes, let me say that I am a huge fan of Spyderco because of the quality and craftsmanship. It just seems like most of their new releases are priced so high that they are really pigeon-holing themselves with a lot of the new models.
I mean, the squeak at $45 is more expensive than a ukpk? The manbug is an $80 knife? All others are seemingly more than $150 (not to mention the Lionspy, which would require a mortgage re-finance)! These prices leave me VERY little hope that the native 5 or the Szabo folder will be even semi-affordable (a la the pm2s or military, etc- all very affordable imo). What's the deal Sal, seems you guys are moving away from the general market? Are custom collabs and high priced models the future? There are some great offerings at more reasonable prices, but for every 1 of those, there are 3 semi customs that cost an arm and a leg...
Ok, END rant! :D
Is it just me or....
Is it just me or....
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I think it reflects the fact that some of the new designs just happen to be more ambitious in terms of design complexity, materials, and so forth, rather than a shift of the whole line upmarket. Their bread-and-butter models are still the same prices they've always been, and the new/upgraded/limited variants (e.g., the ZDP-189 Dragonfly, the CTS-XHP Military sprint) are only a little bit higher than the regular ones, with the increased cost in line with what one would expect based on the use of an upgraded/different blade steel.
+1 I don't buy at MSRP.JNewell wrote:Are you looking at MSRP or discounted street prices?
pmbspyder, how much of an explanation do you want? Compare the prices of Spyderco models over the past 10 years. Prices have gradually increased for the reasons you mentioned (materials and labor) and for reasons you didn't (weak US dollar, oil prices, etc.). Spyderco produces a diverse line of knives at a variety of price points. Yes, it sucks that some of the forthcoming premium models are now pushing $200-300 street price, but that simply reflects all the aforementioned economic factors. You can find posts where Sal discusses how Spyderco prices their knives. It's not voodoo or rocket science, just lean accounting from what I can recall.
BTW, you can still find plenty of well made budget models for under $100 and in some cases around $50.
Edit: Neuron, excellent point about the use of exotic up-market materials in some of the new models. Plus, the collaboration models also have to factor in additional costs to compensate the designers.
I agree with all the aforementioned explanations, I think the thing that is killing me is that I get so excited after threads like Wouter's, only to be let down when I see the actual prices (vendor, not MSRP) of the blades. Maybe it's me, I just thought this year's new designs seemed to favor unusually expensive knives for the Spydie lineup. Facts are facts, and the economy is what it is, so I'll have to either pony up the cash or be a window shopper with some of these new releases...
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I think Sal has said that the higher that expected price of the Squeak was due to the relative values of the dollar/euro ... and I am guessing he would have liked it to be lower if it had been possible. Not sure about the others but I do agree that there seem to have been more higher priced new knives than the budget end.
My spydies: Squeak, Tenacious, Terzuola, D'Allara, UKPK CF peel-ply pre-production, UKPK CF smooth pre-production, UKPK G10 orange leaf-blade, UKPK FRN grey drop-point, UKPK FRN maroon leaf-blade, Bug ... all PE blades :)
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JacksonKnives
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Some of the new models are designed to cater to requests from users--the Manbug, for example, is more expensive because of the bolster/G-10 combo. The Lionspy is an exotic knife targeted at people who are already spending more than Spyderco's MSRP on that sort of thing.
On the other hand, you have the Para2 and Manix2 sprints, of which all (except the S90/CF models) have been downright *cheap.* Then there's the stuff we're seeing from Taichung that can't be beat anywhere in production knifemaking at three times the price.
On the whole, I'm very satisfied with the range of models and pricing on offer. I've got my eye on a few pre-orders.
On the other hand, you have the Para2 and Manix2 sprints, of which all (except the S90/CF models) have been downright *cheap.* Then there's the stuff we're seeing from Taichung that can't be beat anywhere in production knifemaking at three times the price.
On the whole, I'm very satisfied with the range of models and pricing on offer. I've got my eye on a few pre-orders.
—Daniel Jackson
Welcome to 2011 and an administration that has zero real-life financial experience.
Everything costs more from milk to spydercos to gasoline.
/sigh
Everything costs more from milk to spydercos to gasoline.
/sigh
“Open, close, cut, clean, oil, cut, cut, cut... To a Spyderco, that is living. Letting it die in the box is to lose 75% of what we put into it." -----Sal Glesser
Sadly it's all about cost to manufacture. The Yen is strong. It's not cheap to build knives in Italy.
Don't take the following in offense but rather a perspective:
* You can STILL buy quality knives out of Taiwan with CPM-S30v, Carbon Fiber, etc for far less than they are worth. The Sage1 for example should be twice what it costs, IMHO if you factor materials and Fit/Finish. Any expensive knife out of Taiwan close to the custom version but a fraction of the price.
* You can still get exotic steels from Japan in FRN frames (ZDP Stretch, Dragonfly, Delica, Endura) for about $60-100. G10 knives are more expensive but also use more expensive materials. The Manbug is an example of what it costs to take a stainless knife and mill tiny g10 scales to install...far more pricey than grinding a sheet of solid metal or squirting a FRN mold.
* You can still get domestic Spyderco knives at great prices. The FRN ones like the Native are dirt cheap for having S30v blades. Knives like the Para2 range from about $105-140 if you want the generic model or sprint. Worst case with that you get a compression lock, g10 and flat-ground S30v. The Manix2 starts at about $75 in a quality steel and has a flurry of sprints (plus the new light-weight's coming!)
* Chinese Spyderco's are just too cheap. A Resilience for like $45? :eek:
It's true, materials seem to be getting more exotic and that is driving up price (while the benefits are also apparent). That and economies in general are fluctuating. If you are ok with FRN knives they are still quite affordable. G10 knives can be decent if you shop smart but probably won't litter the average person's tool drawer.
I put knives like the Lion Spy in the same category as the Damascus Delica personally, exotic luxuries. Others like the Para2 are amazing values which considers more than simply price.
Anyways, I would be happy just having a Stretch FRN, Delica FRN, and maybe a Tasman SE. That wouldnt set you back far less than $200 total. :)
Don't take the following in offense but rather a perspective:
* You can STILL buy quality knives out of Taiwan with CPM-S30v, Carbon Fiber, etc for far less than they are worth. The Sage1 for example should be twice what it costs, IMHO if you factor materials and Fit/Finish. Any expensive knife out of Taiwan close to the custom version but a fraction of the price.
* You can still get exotic steels from Japan in FRN frames (ZDP Stretch, Dragonfly, Delica, Endura) for about $60-100. G10 knives are more expensive but also use more expensive materials. The Manbug is an example of what it costs to take a stainless knife and mill tiny g10 scales to install...far more pricey than grinding a sheet of solid metal or squirting a FRN mold.
* You can still get domestic Spyderco knives at great prices. The FRN ones like the Native are dirt cheap for having S30v blades. Knives like the Para2 range from about $105-140 if you want the generic model or sprint. Worst case with that you get a compression lock, g10 and flat-ground S30v. The Manix2 starts at about $75 in a quality steel and has a flurry of sprints (plus the new light-weight's coming!)
* Chinese Spyderco's are just too cheap. A Resilience for like $45? :eek:
It's true, materials seem to be getting more exotic and that is driving up price (while the benefits are also apparent). That and economies in general are fluctuating. If you are ok with FRN knives they are still quite affordable. G10 knives can be decent if you shop smart but probably won't litter the average person's tool drawer.
I put knives like the Lion Spy in the same category as the Damascus Delica personally, exotic luxuries. Others like the Para2 are amazing values which considers more than simply price.
Anyways, I would be happy just having a Stretch FRN, Delica FRN, and maybe a Tasman SE. That wouldnt set you back far less than $200 total. :)
You said it wayyy shorter while hitting all the main points. Kudos friend :) .JacksonKnives wrote:Some of the new models are designed to cater to requests from users--the Manbug, for example, is more expensive because of the bolster/G-10 combo. The Lionspy is an exotic knife targeted at people who are already spending more than Spyderco's MSRP on that sort of thing.
On the other hand, you have the Para2 and Manix2 sprints, of which all (except the S90/CF models) have been downright *cheap.* Then there's the stuff we're seeing from Taichung that can't be beat anywhere in production knifemaking at three times the price.
On the whole, I'm very satisfied with the range of models and pricing on offer. I've got my eye on a few pre-orders.
As mentioned there are manufacturing cost differences with all these knives. Material costs, exchange rate, etc. The Manbug while pricey has a justified price; the Lion Spy is an amazing tool with collaboration costs added to the basic ones.
I like FRN knives and enjoy being able to get snobby steels in cheap/light packages. The Manix2 and Para2 offer amazing platforms for a quality affordable tool ($75-105) and room for exotic sprints if you want to pay a bit more.
With the bottom price point being quality Chinese Spyderco's (which are very solid tools) and the value superheros from Taiwan with semi-custom levels of F&F it's a good time to be a Spyderco fan.
I think there is still hope for the Native, but I don't think there ever was hope for the Szabo.
I also think that while some of the knives are expensive, I think Spyderco prices them to be extremely competitive with similarly spec'ed knives from other manufacturers. There aren't many production models that can even match the level of craftsmanship and materials.
I also think that while some of the knives are expensive, I think Spyderco prices them to be extremely competitive with similarly spec'ed knives from other manufacturers. There aren't many production models that can even match the level of craftsmanship and materials.
That's a pretty inflammatory statement. We are talking about long-term economic matters that go back a lot farther than 2009. Can we please keep personal politics out of this. :oZatx wrote:Unnecessary political comment.
Pmbspyder asked a valid and perfectly legitimate question and I think he has received a lot of good answers so far. Clearly the solution is to win the lottery. :D
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The Deacon
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I'd say that most of the new models released lately, and most of those due out in the next few months, fall in the category of "afi models" which use exotic materials and most often do not sell in huge quantities. Both those factors drives up the price. A fair number of them are also collaboration models, adding yet another mouth to feed There are some exceptions though, the Cat, Chicago and Squeak will be modestly priced, as was the latest version of the FRN UKPK. and the Chaparral's price seems quite reasonable to me considering its materials and construction. Des Horn seems pretty reasonable as well, all things considered.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
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WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
The only one that really surprises me as being more expensive than I would have guessed is the new Dialex Junior. Maybe the Taichung maker should put carbon fiber on it like the Sage 1 in order to keep the price down :) add-> Oops, made in Japan
Some, like the Schempp Rock and the Vallotton are less expensive than I would have thought.
Zatx - please edit out your political opinions
Some, like the Schempp Rock and the Vallotton are less expensive than I would have thought.
Zatx - please edit out your political opinions
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
All great info. Definitely want to keep politics out of this, and I have never, nor will I ever, question Spyderco's products or quality. The original post started as a rant about jacked up prices but morphed as I wrote it into a serious question about whether or not Spyderco was steering in the direction of very high end, exotic material knives in an effort to push the knife-industry boundaries going forward.
High prices aside, I agree that it is a very good time to be a knife (more specifically Spyderco-the only knife I purchase) enthusiast! Now I just need to find out about the whole winning the lotto thing as mentioned above :D
High prices aside, I agree that it is a very good time to be a knife (more specifically Spyderco-the only knife I purchase) enthusiast! Now I just need to find out about the whole winning the lotto thing as mentioned above :D
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Correct me if I'm wrong but Junior should be Seki City. VG10 and Compression lock.Sequimite wrote:The only one that really surprises me as being more expensive than I would have guessed is the new Dialex Junior. Maybe the Taichung maker should put carbon fiber on it like the Sage 1 in order to keep the price down :)
You are correct sir. That explains it.Blerv wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but Junior should be Seki City. VG10 and Compression lock.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897