Acoustic guitar help

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Ok, y'all for a coupla years now I've been teaching myself how to play blues guitar but I only know electrics. I play a American v-neck strat deluxe and an American ash tele deluxe. I had a les paul and sold it.
I'd like to finally get an acoustic but since I started with new high end Fenders I don't really want to start with a crappy guitar that won't hold a tune or sounds dead yet I don't have two to six grand to drop on a high end gibson or martin.
I'm not as gung-ho about made in America as I used to be, I just want a passable box that'll stay in tune, doesn't have sound like card-board and is (ideally) under a grand, (I work food service after all).
Any recommendations? :spyder:

[JabFynger]

My main acoustic for years has been the Martin DCX-1E. I've been extremely happy with it. I too slaved away in food service to save the roughly $600 dollars it took to buy when I was younger :D . One of the things that I was most impressed about is the way it maintains the signature bassy, full tone that Martin has long been known for, despite being a relatively low end guitar as far as Martins go. Martin doesn't make you pay high end prices to get a guitar that truly plays, sounds, and is a genuine Martin. And that's something I really respect them for. It may not have quite the "sparkle" in the treble ranges that a couple grand worth of Martin may get you, but I buy and perform with Martins for their bass qualities...and as a blues man there's a good chance you'd enjoy them for the same reason. The high end Fishman pickup is great too if you go with the acoustic/electric model. Of course you could go cheaper if you'd like more headroom from your $1000 limit. the Ovation Celebrity Supershallow is my beat around take-to-the-campfire guitar, and is great for the price and design. But being used to high end electrics as you said you are, you may find the Martin is perfect for something under a grand. I'd be happy to help if you have any questions about these or other models, as there's a good chance that many of the guitars you may consider have passed through my hands at one point or another :D Let us know what you end up with!

[razorsharp]

steel or nylon strings

[Sequimite]

flat picking or fingerstyle? or both?

[razorsharp]

Semi hollow or hollow

[clovisc]

it depends on your playing style, what you want to sound like, what you think sounds good, etc.

go to a guitar store, play as many instruments as possible, and buy the one that has the sound/feel that you like the most. make sure it has good tuners.

the brand -- who cares. that should be the last thing on your mind.

the martins which served as benchmarks in acoustic guitar tone / craftsmanship were made in the 30s -- not today. i've played some seriously junky "low-end" martins. their koa instruments are particularly pathetic.

if you are going to be recording, the mic selection/technique is almost as important as the guitar itself. the right mic and player can make an inexpensive instrument sound like gold. combining a crummy musician and/or an awful mic with an amazing instrument has truly pathetic results.

i've recorded someone playing a $52,000 gibson citation, and heard it sound like a cereal box due to their poor playing, and insistence upon weird micing techniques.

[clovisc]

My main acoustic for years has been the Martin DCX-1E. I've been extremely happy with it. I too slaved away in food service to save the roughly $600 dollars it took to buy when I was younger :D . One of the things that I was most impressed about is the way it maintains the signature bassy, full tone that Martin has long been known for, despite being a relatively low end guitar as far as Martins go. Martin doesn't make you pay high end prices to get a guitar that truly plays, sounds, and is a genuine Martin. And that's something I really respect them for. It may not have quite the "sparkle" in the treble ranges that a couple grand worth of Martin may get you, but I buy and perform with Martins for their bass qualities...

just roll up the highs slightly around 7khz or so -- its been my experiences that this makes the affordable martins of today sound indistinguishable from the unaffordable martins of today.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Ah, when I play my electrics I play 11 gauge strings and hybrid pick, the two Kings and both Alberts along with Hooker are my big influences as well as the delta cats and the post war Chicago crowd. I bend a lot which is one of the intimidating things about acoustics with their freaky stiff strings but I'm sure it makes your hands strong! Is it possible to pull off major third bends on an acoustic? :spyder:

[clovisc]

:spyder: Ah, when I play my electrics I play 11 gauge strings and hybrid pick, the two Kings and both Alberts along with Hooker are my big influences as well as the delta cats and the post war Chicago crowd. I bend a lot which is one of the intimidating things about acoustics with their freaky stiff strings but I'm sure it makes your hands strong! Is it possible to pull off major third bends on an acoustic? :spyder:

when you practice, use even heavier strings. then when you're performing or recording, switch down to the 11s. you will be amazed at how fleet your fingers feel. :D

[JabFynger]

just roll up the highs slightly around 7khz or so -- its been my experiences that this makes the affordable martins of today sound indistinguishable from the unaffordable martins of today.

Ya I agree for sure. I've always been able to get the highs to sing more on recordings, whether close miking or going direct in with the Fishman. It's definitely about mic selection and placement. I'm actually finishing up a degree in production right now.

[defenestrate]

Cool - I didn't know there were any fellow recording geeks on here. :)

I personally have an Alvarez that I received as a gift, but am planning to probably get something a little nicer soon. For now, the tone and playability on that thing are pretty solid, though nothing exceptional. The K&K Western Mini pickup does a good job for live work, too.

[Sequimite]

I'm really a drummer who plays some guitar. Many others seem to have much more experience. But in this case I think I have the answer.

I used 11's on my 335. Obviously heavy strings on most acoustic guitars is a prescription for a warped neck. You can get that same punch on an acoustic archtop with lighter strings and for that matter an archtop can handle heavier strings than a flattop.

I used to play with a guy who used a Martin D-28. I had a Gibson LGO and the Martin was so **** loud I couldn't hear my Gibson without leaning my ear close to the guitar. I picked up a $35 Kay archtop at a garage sale and immediately used it on this weekly gig. I nicknamed this guitar the Martin killer. It's midrange power overwhelmed the Martin's shimmering highs and resonant lows.


I know archtops are available under $1000 because I noodled on a couple of Godins (Canadian, same company as Seagull) recently. They make a great guitar for the money. Play everything in the shop and then find another shop and play everything there. Once you find the model you want play all of them in town because each will be a little different.

EDIT two corrections:
1. I used 10's on my 335, not 11's
2. It turns out that my experience as a drummer is directly relevant. I looked it up and found that a guitar with 11's IS a percussion instrument.

[razorsharp]

i just recommend what ever sounds the best at your local music shop.

hehe, i have a B.C Rich Warlock played through a Deathmetal distortion pedal, Toneworks multi fx pedal and a marshall stock amp modulator, through a Marshall valvestate 8240 model. Oh man its nice. oh man i sound like a geek

[jackknifeh]

Acoustic or acoustic/electric. The electronics will be important of course. I'm no expert but have been playing for many years off and on. As an adult it has only been acoustic guitars.

Brands I like that can be reasonable or expensive.
Ibanez
Takamine

Right now I have an Ibanez Artwood 100CE. I paid $500.00 for it about 7 years ago. I really like it a lot. It sounds good amplified or not. As far as I'm concerned you can put between $300 and $1000 max and have a very nice guitar. More than that may be for higher priced decoration that doesn't help the sound. Then again I'm no pro but have played a lot of guitars even though I've only owned a few. I did play an expensive Martin once and was amazed at the sound. I could see why it would make a good bluegrass guitar. I could strum a chord and hear each individual string better than any other guitar I've played. That was in the early 80s though and it was about $1500 then.

Jack

[clovisc]

i bought a solid koa guitar from http://www.rondomusic.net for $150 brand new a couple years ago. all gold hardware, curly wood, great tuners, etc. the quality of workmanship and tone are substantially better than the inexpensive martins... reminds me a lot of a guitar-sized kamaka uke. (had one a couple years ago, but got greedy and sold it.) rondo isn't carrying them currently... but they oftentimes have unbelievably great inexpensive stuff appear on their website. (have like 5 of their guitars + basses?)

my fave axe most of the time is a mid-90s strat that i overhauled to "siamese dream" billy corgan specs... the blue/red/silver lace sensor pickup configuration, except with 7 way switching. if you want the early pumpkins tone, the weird lace sensors are the only way to truly get it. also a big fan of my mid-90s MIJ jazzmaster for MBV shoegaze stuff... although the $150 rondo music fake-jazzmasters w. P90s i have sound nearly indistinguishable when you have the crazy reverb / glide guitar effect up and running.

[Sequimite]

Jason, re Rondo:

Any experience or word of mouth on their mandolins?

Any basses in their current lineup that you recommend?

add: I love their cymbal stand which is made by both Yamaha and Tama and possibly CS.

[SkullBouncer]

Interesting reading. Just lurking, seeing what folks have to say.

Getting some smiles / SB

[Brad S.]

I didnt really read everyone elses reply so maybe this has been said.


Ive play guitar for a long time, and used to build custom acoustic guitars. In my experience, the best budget guitars ive ever found are Seagull guitars. They are great! Sound incredible for the price. I think they kick the pants off most high end guitars (Taylors... for example) I would personally avoid the following... Takamine, Fender, Martin, Taylor, Gibson... any of those for acoustics But I'll also say im a bit of a guitar snob. Martin makes a few nice ones, but I find most hard to play with not nearly as good of tone as they should for the money.

Go to your local guitar shop, see if they have Seagull, see what you think.

Larrivee also makes some really really nice budget models for around $1000

[Wolfie677]

To each their own. I have a Takamine EAN10C Cedar Top that has been my main acoustic for almost 10 years, it's one of their more expensive ones but worth it. I've owned two Taylors in the meantime and sold them both, just kept going back to the Tak for writing/recording/performing. I string it with those newish Ernie Ball coated titanium strings, they sound amazing, worth the $15 a set. I use 11's but will go to 12's if I need a darker sound for recording.

Fretboard radius on your American Strat should be 9.5". I like my acoustic to play as much like my electrics as possible, one of the main reasons I got this one so you might do a little research based on what you are used to and see what is offered. Other than that, play them all, you almost can't go wrong these days. Almost. :)

[clovisc]

Jason, re Rondo:

Any experience or word of mouth on their mandolins?

Any basses in their current lineup that you recommend?

add: I love their cymbal stand which is made by both Yamaha and Tama and possibly CS.

Hey Greg.

I sold probably 20 of musiciansfriend.com rogue mandolins back when I was running a recording studio / community arts space here. They are ridiculously affordable, sound like a mandolin, play just fine -- but definitely not the types of mandolins you see "mandolinists" carrying around. (i've recorded some of these people -- they are intense. the cost of their mandolins is comparable to the cost of fine violins.) still, if you play guitar and just want a mandolin to fool around with, or to use to record a part or two on songs, and aren't a mandolin tone freak (they all sound the same to me), the musician's friend mandos are AWESOME. And cost almost nothing.

I have a Rondo Jazz Bass clone I bought a couple years back (it cost me $130) which is laughably better than fenders 4x the price. The tone is awesome. I'm amazed that Kurt is able to create these bargains. You play one of these, and then realize that everything Fender is making is overpriced junk, except for the higher-dime US-made stuff, which is not junk, but which is overpriced. Still, I guess some people need to see the logo on their headstock pretty badly.

I have five Rondo guitars... two jazzmaster wannabes, the jazz bass mentioned above, an ash tele, and a les(s) paul junior. I have played and sold many others. I have never seen, heard, or played a bad one. I've had two guitars (out of like 20 that have gone through me) arrive with very minor damage, but he has fixed them by sending replacement parts, or refunding a portion of the price back -- basically, going with whatever suggestion I thought would make it right, no questions asked. The hardware alone is usually worth the price!!!!