sneaker cutting: edge chipping test

[jimnolimit]

*disclaimer: i went into this test willing to except responsibility for ruining/damaging my knives and/or myself. if anyone tries to recreate this test they must also except that responsibility.*

*this is in no way a scientific test or 100% accurate. all tests were real world and as is, using sneakers taken directly from my hallway. im not perfect, but i tried my best to keep everything as close as possible. this is just one specific type of test and in no way should it be used to "try" and disprove or discredit other well done tests. this is just another small piece in a very large steel puzzle.*




i decided to take a few different knives/steels i have and cut up some of my old, size-12 new balance's (US made).
i cut each sneaker into approximately 26-28 pieces, to keep the test as fair as possible
all blades tested so far are between 3"-4" long and less than 4mm at the thickest part of the spine.
all edges are about 18-20 degrees per side (i hand sharpen but i'm pretty accurate).
all knives were beveled, sharpened and finished on the same stones.
all high powered pics are taken at about 375x magnification. after each test, i inspected the blade's edge and i took the high powered pic showing the worst area of the edge. even though these "chips" look large, they're not. at this magnification, even the largest chips are about the size of a human hair.
before i started the tests, each knife was able to easily push cut newspaper against the grain

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first up was a spyderco endura 4 ZDP-189 FFG:




ZDP



after the test, ZDP wouldn't cut the newspaper either with or against the grain, but it still cut cardboard pretty easily.



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next up was my spyderco para 2 with S30V.





S30V



after the test, S30V wouldn't cut newspaper either with or against the grain. S30V also wouldn't cut cardboard.

.

[jimnolimit]

knife #3 was a spyderco 52100 mule.





52100



after the test, the 52100 wouldn't cut newspaper either with or against the grain, but it was able to cut cardboard pretty easily.



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knife #4 was a buck vantage select large (420HC steel)






420HC





after the test, the 420HC wouldn't cut newspaper either with or against the grain, but it would still cut cardboard pretty easily.

p.s. out of the four knives tested so far (the 3 spyderco's were full flat grinds) the vantage select had a little less resistance while cutting. it was probably the fact that the buck has a very deep hollow grind.

.

[jimnolimit]

spot saved for later.

[chuck_roxas45]

So what they say is true about 52100 being able to hang with ZDP.

[jimnolimit]

So what they say is true about 52100 being able to hang with ZDP.

see the thing is, i couldn't honestly say. i didn't try to find out which steel was better under these circumstances. for me to even attempt that i would have had to check the edge and sharpness after each cut. i made all 26-28 cut in one shot, then i only check to see if newspaper and/or cardboard could be cut.

all 4 knives/steels couldn't cut the newspaper
3 of the 4 knives/steels could easily cut the cardboard, one couldn't cut cardboard at all.

my main goal was to see how the edges react to the hard use of the test. i am more concerned with if/how the steel chips, flakes, bends, roll, size of damage, etc.

[chuck_roxas45]

see the thing is, i couldn't honestly say. i didn't try to find out which steel was better under these circumstances. for me to even attempt that i would have had to check the edge and sharpness after each cut. i made all 26-28 cut in one shot, then i only check to see if newspaper and/or cardboard could be cut.

all 4 knives/steels couldn't cut the newspaper
3 of the 4 knives/steels could easily cut the cardboard, one couldn't cut cardboard at all.

my main goal was to see how the edges react to the hard use of the test. i am more concerned with if/how the steel chips, flakes, bends, roll, size of damage, etc.

I see. I shouldn't really go around reading things into what you've done. Thanks.

[Blerv]

As mentioned it's hard to keep all variables in line. The knives are slightly different grinds.

That said, it says spades about each knife and specific steel for that model. Seeing the blade magnification is extremely helpful!!! I have more faith in these knives than ever before.

Thank for your hard work.

[jimnolimit]

As mentioned it's hard to keep all variables in line. The knives are slightly different grinds.

That said, it says spades about each knife and specific steel for that model. Seeing the blade magnification is extremely helpful!!! I have more faith in these knives than ever before.

Thank for your hard work.

i'll also add, that it's not an accurate "real world" test if all the variables are controlled and exact. the chances that two people with the same exact knife, cutting the exact same materials in the exact same way, is pretty much zero. all four knives that i have tested so far, especially the endura 4 ZDP and para 2 s30v which i also put through the can cutting test, handled everything i threw at them. later on when i put new edges on all of them, you would never know what they just did.

the pair of sneakers i wear now will get retired in about a week, that's two more shoes to cut .

[jackknifeh]

Hey Jim, has anyone ever told you that you need a hobby? :D Just kidding. I think I need help. I didn't take my LSD today and the smilies are moving on me. :eek:

Seriously, I appreciate the time you're spending on this. I think everyone does.

Jack

[Spider bite]

I had a s30v manix chip last when I cut a tiny zip tie. To chippy for me.

[Michael Cook]

I had a s30v manix chip last when I cut a tiny zip tie. To chippy for me.

:spyder: Always give new s30v knives a light touch up on the sharpmaker initially before using, it seems to help reduce chipping. After that s30v's awesome. :spyder:

[hunterseeker5]

I'm more than a little disappointed with the S30V in that one. I'd like to just write it off as an outlier due to small sample size, but somehow..... *sigh* It looks like Spyderco is just running their S30V a little too hard, or perhaps the claims of S30V actually not being as good as everyone claims may be true.

At the very least thank you very much for the testing and pictures. Given the quality of your testing I almost feel like it would be appropriate for us to all pitch in some money to buy you some more uniform and "scientific" material to cut so the results (hopefully) have greater accuracy since I'm assuming you aren't cutting brand new shoes here and by my count that is three shoes so its not like they were a perfect pair.

[Donut]

Did you use mustard to patina your Mule? It looks pretty nice.

If you read about S30V, you will see that it IS a soft steel and the carbides help it to hold its shape. Softer steel means it is easier to sharpen and repair damage. It also means that it will take more of a beating, it really shouldn't chip easily, but it will compress easier. If you see the zoomed picture of the edge, you can see it isn't chipped.

Jim, how did you do your cutting? Some people will push their edge through something soft like a shoe and the blade will hit something hard like a table or a piece of wood. It would be difficult to make sure the damage to the edge we're seeing is all caused by the shoe.

[Evil D]

I may have missed this, but what are you cutting against when cutting through the shoes? That could very well be more of a cause of chipping than the shoes themselves if you're dragging the edge along a hard surface under the material being cut.

[Jazz]

Welcome to the select few of the Shoe Cutting Club. Cool test - thanks for sharing.

- best wishes, Jazz.

[jimnolimit]

Did you use mustard to patina your Mule? It looks pretty nice.

that mule was a factory second. that "design" is an etched pattern that came on the blade from the factory (the reason i believe it was a factory second in the first place).

Jim, how did you do your cutting? Some people will push their edge through something soft like a shoe and the blade will hit something hard like a table or a piece of wood. It would be difficult to make sure the damage to the edge we're seeing is all caused by the shoe.

I may have missed this, but what are you cutting against when cutting through the shoes? That could very well be more of a cause of chipping than the shoes themselves if you're dragging the edge along a hard surface under the material being cut.

i held the sneaker over the edge of the table, so the only thing the blades touched was sneaker and air.

[Blerv]

I'm more than a little disappointed with the S30V in that one. I'd like to just write it off as an outlier due to small sample size, but somehow..... *sigh* It looks like Spyderco is just running their S30V a little too hard, or perhaps the claims of S30V actually not being as good as everyone claims may be true.

Don't discount s30v, it's amazing. If he had access to a Para in other steels, like AUS8, I'm sure its merits would stand out.

It has a couple points on vg10 for most things. Not much but I would tip my hat to it as a slightly better workers steel. Can it compete with zdp189, s90v, m4, m390 for edge retention? Nope. That said, few can. Still it rarely has to since it's a great well rounded steel (price, toughness, corrosion resistance) for USA and Taiwan Spydies where ZDP and VG10 aren't being put in similar models.

As mentioned, isolate the data for what it is. The only people who are reconsidering buying a Para2 are those who aren't seeing the whole picture. Same goes for those people who are still out to nay-say zdp as a shelf queen exotic. Consider data + personal conclusion = enlightenment.

[jimnolimit]

I'm more than a little disappointed with the S30V in that one. I'd like to just write it off as an outlier due to small sample size, but somehow..... *sigh* It looks like Spyderco is just running their S30V a little too hard, or perhaps the claims of S30V actually not being as good as everyone claims may be true.

At the very least thank you very much for the testing and pictures. Given the quality of your testing I almost feel like it would be appropriate for us to all pitch in some money to buy you some more uniform and "scientific" material to cut so the results (hopefully) have greater accuracy since I'm assuming you aren't cutting brand new shoes here and by my count that is three shoes so its not like they were a perfect pair.

this "test" wasn't meant to compare one steel to another. i did it to see what happens to different steels after some pretty heavy duty cutting. i took the microscope pics to see how each steel wears out. had i cut a different material, i could have gotten different results (and i have).

personally, i feel spyderco does a great job hardening their S30V. im sure sal and crew have done more testing with S30V then all of us ever will, combined.

[jimnolimit]

As mentioned, isolate the data for what it is. The only people who are reconsidering buying a Para2 are those who aren't seeing the whole picture.

i can only hope that most/all people will isolate the data for what it is.

even after doing these few "tests", i still wouldn't hesitate to buy a para 2. IMO it's still one of the best EDC knives on the market.

[chuck_roxas45]

This actually reinforces what I have experienced with S30V. However, I have been treating ZDP with baby gloves and this opens my mind about it's capabilities.