ZDP-189 edge chipping test:

[jimnolimit]

*disclaimer: i went into this test willing to except responsibility for ruining/damaging my knife and/or myself. if anyone tries to recreate this test they must also except that responsibility. the endura 4 both ZDP-189 and VG-10 are NOT DESIGNED OR INTENDED FOR HARD USE/ABUSE.*

(post #51, i added another test where i cut a sneaker.)

i made a thread over on BF where i test ZDP for chipping while cutting metal cans. here is the link: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... pping-test

i'll post some pics here for the forum.

the knife used is an endura 4 ZDP FFG. the cutting edge is set to about 17-20 degrees per side (probably closer to 20). i marked a 1 inch section of the blade to concentrate on while doing all the cutting. the dot is in the middle of that 1 inch section to use as a reference point. all close up pics of the edge are at 40x-50x.


here is the edge after sharpening, before any cutting:





first test was to cut the top of a coffee can out, i believe i did so in 7 cuts:





here is the edge after the cutting off the top:





next i cut the can in half:





here is the edge after cutting the top off and cutting the can in half:





i then used the knife to cut up some card board. the ZDP cut the cardboard easily:





i then used the knife to slice 18 lines (4 cuts per line) into an olive oil can. i also tested S30V, but that's another thread :

[jimnolimit]

here is the ZDP after 6 slices (4 cuts per slice). the edge looked the same after all 18 slices but i forgot to take a pic :o :





this is a piece of standard copy paper after everything so far. even though both the ZDP and S30V made the cut. i had to use a sawing motion and the S30V required at least twice as many sawing strokes to get it done:





the final test was an attempt to cut through the rim of the olive oil can. i applied about 35 lbs of pressure to the spine and rocked the knife back and forth about 12-15 times:





here is the edge after all the testing, the only damage the edge sustained is shown in this pic. the whole rest of the edge still looks good:





to give everyone a reference, i put my para 2 S30V through the same test. after all the tests and trying to cut the rim, this is what the edge looked like:






right after i was done with the tests, my daughter asked me to cut her a piece if cardboard concrete form (8.5" diameter). the ZDP cut through it easily:

[Donut]

Wow, great test. This was like an interesting episode of myth busters. :)

Thank you for the effort, sacrifice and good work.

[jimnolimit]

Wow, great test. This was like an interesting episode of myth busters. :)

Thank you for the effort, sacrifice and good work.

your welcome.

im soaking my 1000 grit norton water stone right now. im going time myself to see how long it takes to put new edges on both my endura 4 and para 2.

p.s. i enjoy watching mythbusters .

[chuck_roxas45]

I love it! :D

[angusW]

Those cans didn't stand a chance.

The pic you have of the PM2 in the bf thread shows less chipping than the Endura. I'm a bit surprised by that and also disappointed. I find S30V chips pretty easily after stripping #6 strand copper wire even when I put a shine on the edge. I was going to get the Endura in ZDP but if it's more prone to chipping than S30V then I might have second thoughts.

[Slash]

YOU'RE NUTS. Good test if you need to cut metal. I'm not thrilled about zdp after chipping from cutting cardboard. But, as already said that was Spyderco's first solid zpd offering and they could have messed up the HT?

[chuck_roxas45]

Those cans didn't stand a chance.

The pic you have of the PM2 in the bf thread shows less chipping than the Endura. I'm a bit surprised by that and also disappointed. I find S30V chips pretty easily after stripping #6 strand copper wire even when I put a shine on the edge.

Well, that's not really a surprise because S30V is tougher than ZDP. The question then becomes, what bevel angle do you have your S30V at?

You cannot just look at the steels in a vacuum. You need to match your bevel to what you are doing. I bet that if you have a 25 degree per side angle on your S30V you wouldn't get chipping doing what you were.

I was going to get the Endura in ZDP but if it's more prone to chipping than S30V then I might have second thoughts.

I guess that that is somewhat of a problem with tests like these because some people tend to interpret them the way they want.

Just because ZDP can take crazy thin angles does not mean that the thin angles will suit your applications. There are always trade-offs. You decide if you want a more fragile edge that cuts like a laser or a more durable edge that has a little less performance.

[jimnolimit]

Those cans didn't stand a chance.

The pic you have of the PM2 in the bf thread shows less chipping than the Endura. I'm a bit surprised by that and also disappointed. I find S30V chips pretty easily after stripping #6 strand copper wire even when I put a shine on the edge. I was going to get the Endura in ZDP but if it's more prone to chipping than S30V then I might have second thoughts.

i posted the same pic above, in the second post. i wouldn't say either of the blades are that prone to chipping. both edges showed almost no wear or damage until after i tried to cut through the rolled and crimped edge. i was pressing down on the spine of the blade with about 35 lbs of pressure while rocking the blade at least 12-15 times.

what edge angle are you using? the angle i was using on both was about 17-20 degrees per side (probably closer to 20 per side). im very confident that both ZDP and S30V would have done better if i set the angles at 25-30 degrees.

[mongatu]

Interesting test and results. I wouldn't want to put my precious S30V Para 2 through such abuse. At 15 degrees I'm finding it a bit prone to chip. It chipped on me (a little) when I used it to just scrape part of the label off of a prescription medication bottle. I was surprised (disappointed a little) by that. Still love the knife anyway though.

[angusW]

Well, that's not really a surprise because S30V is tougher than ZDP. The question then becomes, what bevel angle do you have your S30V at?

You cannot just look at the steels in a vacuum. You need to match your bevel to what you are doing. I bet that if you have a 25 degree per side angle on your S30V you wouldn't get chipping doing what you were.

I guess that that is somewhat of a problem with tests like these because some people tend to interpret them the way they want.

Just because ZDP can take crazy thin angles does not mean that the thin angles will suit your applications. There are always trade-offs. You decide if you want a more fragile edge that cuts like a laser or a more durable edge that has a little less performance.

i posted the same pic above, in the second post. i wouldn't say either of the blades are that prone to chipping. both edges showed almost no wear or damage until after i tried to cut through the rolled and crimped edge. i was pressing down on the spine of the blade with about 35 lbs of pressure while rocking the blade at least 12 times.

what edge angle are you using? the angle i was using on both was about 17-20 degrees per side (probably closer to 20 per side). im very confident that both ZDP and S30V would have done better if i set the angles at 25-30 degrees.

I pretty much stay with the factory angle. You're both right in that I should consider choosing a different angle for my particular needs. And thanks for doing the testing Jim. Very interesting.

[jimnolimit]

YOU'RE NUTS. Good test if you need to cut metal. I'm not thrilled about zdp after chipping from cutting cardboard. But, as already said that was Spyderco's first solid zpd offering and they could have messed up the HT?

that was one of the first endura 4 ZDP FFG's, i've got that knife november 2009.

when i was making the cuts i kept the blade straight, i tried not to make any twisting motions.

i did most of the cutting with about a 1 inch section of the blade, this is what i did:

1. 7 cuts to take the top off the coffee can.
2. 10 cuts to cut the coffee can in half.
3. about 20 two inch long pieces of cardboard cut
4. 18 slices in the olive oil can (each slice was about 5" long and took 4 cuts to make). that's 72 total cuts to the olive oil can.
5. applying about 35 pounds of pressure to the spine of the blade while rocking the knife at least 12 times while trying to cut the crimped edge.
6. bisecting a 8.5" cardboard concrete form.

i only caused the small chips on the edge from #5.

it took me 4 minutes and 46 seconds to use my 1000 grit norton stone to remove all chips and re-bevel the whole edge. after that i swiped the edge 4 times on a canvas strop (no paste) and the edge was sharper than it came from the factory.

[jimnolimit]

Interesting test and results. I wouldn't want to put my precious S30V Para 2 through such abuse. At 15 degrees I'm finding it a bit prone to chip. It chipped on me (a little) when I used it to just scrape part of the label off of a prescription medication bottle. I was surprised (disappointed a little) by that. Still love the knife anyway though.

i don't think you chipped the blade, sounds to me like you had a burr on the edge and knocked it off while scrapping the label.

[.357 mag]

Thanks for the test. I've never had a chip with my ZDP delica, but I'm glad to see it will talk alot to chip it.

[chuck buck]

so now i want zdp, thanks!

[jimnolimit]

here is what the edge looks like now (finished on a fine hard arkansas? stone):

[mongatu]

i don't think you chipped the blade, sounds to me like you had a burr on the edge and knocked it off while scrapping the label.

No, I examined it closely with a 10x loupe and it definitely is a chip, albeit a very small one. Not worth fixing until the next time I need to touch up. If I had your photographic skills, I would post a photo.

On the other hand, I will say that I'm very pleased with the overall edge holding of this blade. Since I got the bevels properly reset and nicely finished, it's been doing great, aside from that tiny chip.

When you think about it, scraping against a curved hard cylindrical object probably concentrated a fair amount of pressure against a small part of the very edge.

[SmoothOne25]

now i want zdp!

you want zdp huh? get the "almost" newly released brg zdp delica ffg from jeff. we got the brg zdp ffg endura too so now its:

delica:
blue ffg
green ffg
grey ffg
purple ffg
brown ffg
pink ffg
brg ffg --- zdp

endura:
blue ffg
green ffg
grey ffg
purple ffg
brown ffg
brg ffg --- zdp

[Zendemic]

Great test! Nice to see a side to side comparison of the two.

[Blerv]

Awesome test! Thanks for taking the time. Steel that hard certainly doesn't deform much. :)