ZDP-189 do's and don'ts

[marknett]

Well I finally have this steel coming in a stretch and was wondering what to expect of it . So any opinions or concerns appreciated :)

[dsmegst]

I treat it about the same as other blade steels. But I do take a little extra care when it gets wet. A quick wipe when wet and occasional cleaning with alcohol to remove residue. I don't oil it regularly or follow any unusual regime, although it is winter and humidity is low these days. I'm generally not abusive with my folders anyway.

The Stretch 2 has been a great EDC knife so far. The blade still looks new, no stains, rust or patina. So far, I have not heard or read about major issues with ZDP used in folders.

[The Mentaculous]

My experience is about the same as dsmegst--I touch it up once in a while when I have done a lot of cutting (doesn't need touchups that often, but I don't do very heavy cutting, mostly opening envelopes, packages, occasionally breaking down cardboard boxes etc). Just make sure you don't let it get dull, and don't soak it in saltwater, sweat or urine. I always wipe my blades down after a day of use, and recently I oil them every few months at the most. Never had any problems with it. Contrary to what some people say, ZDP is a pretty corrosion resistant (with 20% chromium, it should be!)

Enjoy your new Stretch! I look forward to hearing what you think of it!

[The Mastiff]

Do: Sharpen with a light touch. The angle it comes at is pretty good. Try to work with the steel and not fight against it. It's good stuff.

Don't: Pry or saw hard things if it's a SE. It's not the weakest, but it's not the toughest steel around. Take care of it and it will surprise you with it's performance. It's does wear resistance very good and likes high sharpness.

[dcmartin2001]

First off, thank you so much Marknett for hooking up that link! I'm very excited to get my ZDP-189 Stretch as well.......
As far as do's and don'ts well all I can say is (like everyone else says) Don't let it get dull... My only experience with 189 is with my Caly3 and my Michael Walker. The M Walker had a chip in the blade when i bought it and it had already been sharpened.....or at least a sharpening was attempted by the previous owner. The chip was miniscule and it took a couple of 1 hr sessions with the sharpmaker to get rid of it completely (needless to say, this steel is TOUGH to sharpen! or shall i say re-profile.....touch ups go pretty easy) So don't let it get too dull..... The stretch will be my first ZDP-189 workhorse. The other 2 are Carbon Fiber and don't see much abuse other than an occasional package opening from UPS / USPS .....Looking very fwd to it :D

-Thanks again

[.357 mag]

I've had my delica Zdp since chrismas. I sharpened it the day after and it's been hair wittling until yesterday the tip need touched up the rest of the blade is still fine. I sharpen with a Edge pro epex and it makes ZDP sharpen easily. Harder than my buck 420hc blades but little very easy. I've kept mine at the factory angle which was about 15 1/2 degrees per side. Some say to do the 30/40 sharpening to avoid chipping but I haven't had that problem yet.

Have fun. It's a cool steel.

[marknett]

Thats a good looking knife there . What angles do you guys recommend 30/40, 20/30

[Handwrecker]

Sharpen it lightly, and it's easier to touch it up before it gets too dull. Other than that you should be fine. I left a ZDP blade in an apple and onion for a total of 36 hours and had no sign of corrosion or discoloration. Unless you spend your time in sea water, rust should not be a problem. Also, it seems to be one of the best steels for keeping that initial razor edge. Most steels seem like they lose that hair whittling edge very quickly and keep a working edge, but ZDP just seems to want to stay as sharp as it can.

I've been carrying a ZDP Lum Chinese since May, and have been impressed by ZDP. I backbevel at the 30* setting, and touch up the edge with the 40* setting, like on all of my Spydercos.

[xc6w]

I agree, would also say regular little touch up goes a sharp way for the ZDP. it would take a little longer to sharpen when dull, but once you have that edge, it is going to last a long time.

It is a super steel for slicing and edge retention is superb, so personally, I would opt for 20/30 where it shines.

[gull wing]

The ZDP Stretch I have is a pleasure to own(CF). Of course it holds an edge well, but I was suprised that it was not too hard to put one back on.(Of course, I touch it up, rather than letting it get DULL)
If you use it, it will get, at the least, a patna. Could get pits as well, mine did, they are tiny and hardly noticeable. This ZDP is not as bad as say D2, pretty easy to live with.

Clean after use and oil. Note forehead oil works in a pinch :D .

If, later you want to remove the patina, a cotton buff charged with white rouge works well.(table top setup or even Dremell works)

Good Luck!

[Blerv]

The funny thing about ZDP-189 and the other exotic stainless steels is they are pretty tame for the average user.

What I mean is that if kept at factory angles, which are very aggressive, the knives are very sharp and stay that way for a LONG time. With the exception of some light discoloration due to moisture, even a ZDP blade won't rust if you keep it dry and clean. It won't even really chip if you keep to cutting normal materials (usually). Definitely avoid staples :) .

While it takes a screaming edge at silly angles, I wouldn't dissuade the average person from getting a knife in the steel. Sure VG10 is a bit better well-rounded but ZDP is hardly the glass sword some (including myself) have assumed it to be.

[marknett]

well I love the vg-10 steel . It;s the best I;ve used so far .

[Evil D]

VG10 was my favorite until recently getting more time with S30V...man it's a tough one. I really love ZDP now that i've learned to sharpen it, but S30V is really nice.

As for the ZDP does and don'ts....DO raise a burr on both sides when sharpening and hone it out with finer grits, DON'T get too aggressive with course stones or you'll just create micro chips that take ridiculous amounts of time to hone out. Only go as course as you have to. DO use diamond stones, DON'T get too heavy handed...let the diamonds do their thing. Lastly, DON'T get carried away with super low bevel angles unless you plan on light duty EDC. Yes ZDP will take and hold an edge at 10 degrees per side, but it can be chippy if you use it for hard cuts, and that just leads to a nightmare of a time honing out those chips. Personally, if it's a saber grind, i would cut a back bevel really low to thin out the steel behind the edge, and then make my primary bevel 30ish degrees inclusive like Spyderco ships their knives. This will give you a thin but strong edge where it counts. If it's FFG, just leave it alone at the factory 30 unless you want a lighter duty slicer.

[jackknifeh]

I have 3 ZDP-189 knives. Michael Walker, Stretch (blue handle) and Delica 4. I like this steel because of edge retention. I have no problem sharpening it now. When I first got it I was very concerned because I couldn't get a razor edge on the MW (first ZDP) or anything close to it. I had read on this forum about people getting very low angles on their knives. That is what I tried the first time I sharpened it. I wanted a 20 deg. inclusive edge. This took a lot of time which was expected. However, not getting a great edge was completely unsatisfactory. Here is what I do now. I keep a 10 deg. per side back bevel and then a 15 degree back bevel then a 20 degree edge bevel. With the different angles it resembles a convex edge and I am able to keep a razor sharp edge with the 20 deg angle. Once the back bevel angles are established they can be left alone thank god. After all the work to get this edge I resharpen using a micro bevel of 22 degrees. Just a few strokes per side once a week or so keeps a hair whittling edge on the knives.

I never have a problem with corosion on any knives. This is due to the fact that my uses don't include very many wet activities. My knives will get rained on occasionally and sweat when in my pocket or during use are the main things my knives fight against concerning corrosion. I also use Tuf-Glide and the Tuf-Cloth on the blades and I keep the joint lubricated as well.

The only problem I've had with ZDP-189 is small chipping right on the edge when using low angles on the very edge. The chips are so small you don't notice them with the naked eye during regular use. You have to look for the nicks or feel for them with a fingernail. You can also detect them when slicing paper or something like that. After maintaining an edge angle of 20 deg. per side I have had practically no chipping.

This is how I treat ZDP-189 steel. With these habits I love this steel. Some may argue that a knife blade shouldn't need this much attention to detail to maintain and I can understand that. One benefit I got out of this detail is a better understanding of how use effects the edge and I value that knowledge. Thanks to Spyderco for providing these knives at a reasonable price. More points for the Spyderco crew and products.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

Quick question slightly off subject. Does anyone know how many of the Stretch ZDP-189 BLUE handle knives were made? I was wondering since the blue handle model has been cancelled.

Thanks,
Jack

[Evil D]

The biggest argument against a steel like this is, do you really need all that edge retention? Do you find that the extra effort put in to keep it sharp is worth it? If you don't mind touching up a blade every day or two, you can do just fine with VG10, and you'll get your knife scary sharp much faster and with much less attention to detail. So...if you don't mind sharpening more often, you may find that ZDP is overkill for your EDC needs. For me, when i use a knife at work i cut so much stuff that some days i can make a ZDP edge shiny by the end of my shift so that extra bit of edge retention goes a long way for me.

Now...that said, i have noticed that my S30V Para lasts through my shift just as well as my Delica 4 does....which is interesting.

[Ankerson]

Now...that said, i have noticed that my S30V Para lasts through my shift just as well as my Delica 4 does....which is interesting.

It's the difference in the composition of the steels, while ZDP might hold an edge longer while S30V develops that toothy working edge and the Vanadium Carbides take over so it just keeps cutting.

Vanadium Carbides (S30V) are harder than Chromium Carbides (ZDP) and S30V is tougher than ZDP.

So S30V done right like Spyderco does it will cut and continue to cut because of the working edge it develops while ZDP will dull and the edge will smooth out or start to break apart after a certain amount of cutting.

Most of ZDP-189's edge retention comes from the High Hardness levels, the Chromium Carbides that are developed in the HT and Tempering process will only take it so far.

S30V (60) and ZDP-189 (65) are closer than people tend to think they are in edge retention, I have ZDP-189 (65) and CPM-154 (62) ranked in the same category. CPM-154 and S30V are very close when HT to the same hardness. That is the reason you are seeing what you are when using the steels.

That's the reason why the High Vanadium Carbide steels like S90V, S110V, S125V, 10V are at the top of the food chain.

[pwet]

except for people who dislike the "working edge" that high alloy steel devellop. for me it's either ZDP, cowry X or simpler stainles ...


i own a fair share of S30V knives and even some S90V (one more coming) and i enjoy those knives, but the steel isn't my fav and for me it means more maintenance to keep them with the FOTS* edge ....



*=fresh of the stones

[Ankerson]

except for people who dislike the "working edge" that high alloy steel devellop. for me it's either ZDP, cowry X or simpler stainles ...


i own a fair share of S30V knives and even some S90V (one more coming) and i enjoy those knives, but the steel isn't my fav and for me it means more maintenance to keep them with the FOTS* edge ....



*=fresh of the stones

I was talking about pure cutting performance and edge retention, nothing will touch the High Vanadium steels there.

Straight cutting like on cardboard you would have to sharpen that ZDP knife at least twice while the S90V knife will just keep cutting and cutting.

The ZDP blade would be butter knife dull while the S90V blade would still be usable and for a very long time.

[pwet]

no arguing there i completely agree.

once ZDP starts to dull it gets completely dull very fast (compared to how long it stayed screaming sharp) as opposed SXXXV series have to be pushed to the limits in term of hardness to match FOTS edge retention. but past this point they still perform "well" forever.