I just received a new Spyderco Native4 today, and I opened up the box to discover an extremely uneven secondary grind the likes of which I haven't seen on any quality knife in a long time. I paid a premium for this model and I frankly expected better: it looks like whoever finished this edge just didn't give a **** (note: the edge grind on the other side is understandably extremely narrow).
If this knife was strictly designed as a user, I wouldn't be frustrated. But this is a model which comes at a great deal of extra expense, partly because it is supposed to be built to a higher standard. I've had great experiences with Spyderco products in the past, but I am sorry to say that this kind of finishing on such a supposedly high-end product will make me reluctant to buy another Spyderco product anytime soon.
In my mind, an edge like that on a model like this makes it a factory second. Would you be satisfied with such a grind from the factory, on a ~$170 knife?
The nice thing about the edge is it can always be tailored to your own preference. I'd stick it in my pocket and use it. First good sharpening will even things out.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
-Nick
Last in: N5 Magnacut The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal
Most of the new knives i get are similar. My Manix 2 was the same way. I don't let it bother me because using a Lansky you'll sometimes get similarly off bevels like that. IMO it doesn't matter that much as long as it's the same on both sides.
It wouldn't bother me and, if it did, I'd just sharpen it. As has been mentioned, sending it back to Spyderco for resharpening is an option. One problem with buying knives that have been out of production for a while and that most dealers no longer have in stock is that, if you do find one, you may be getting something six other customers already rejected.
From the pic (assumption) I would be fine with it. If not I would contact Spyderco as they would take care of you in some way. With a sharpening system and time you can fix anything. Does it cut well? I've seen some ugly grinds that cut like lasers.
Usually the first thing people do is get upset and post on the forums. A quick phone call with the store of purchase or the manufacturer solves 99% of the problems.
You have every right to post on the internet your findings whether they be negative or positive about Spyderco. That is exactly how they formed their standards of quality over the years. I've found that they've welcomed such things in the past.
That being said, it would seem like you have a less than ideal grind from your experiences, I don't have that model and I have also received a lemon of an expensive Spyderco myself. If you buy any other knife brand, you'll find imperfections as well.
Just send it straight back to Spyderco with a letter expressing your discontent with the edge geometry, and we will see what they elect to do with their situation.
That being said, the Native 4 is a great knife and I would not hesitate to add one to my collection if I could afford knives right now.
"Quality is not an accident. It's the result of focused intention, earnest effort, intelligent direction, and careful execution." - Front of the mid-year catalog
I know that this knife can be repaird. However, To me this knife is not comparable to a Tenacious, FRN Native, etc. This is a knife which Spyderco claims should command a $250 MSRP: and I've never seen a street price less than $160. At that price, I should be getting something done right. Unfortunately, this one came with a sloppy, amateurish grind, and in my opinion it should never have left the factory that way, given product of this nature. Yes, I could perhaps send it back to the factory for Spyderco to fix (at considerable inconvenience and cost to me by time I ship it there and then get it back trough customs to Canada). Or I can spend an hour on my sharpmaker and balance it by wearing the edge back significantly. But why should I have to do that for a knife at this price point?
If Sal could tell me that he would be satisfied to hand this knife to friend as an example of the quality of Spyderco products, then I'll accept my criticisms as unjustified. Unfortunately, I suspect that this is not the case.
I agree with Chris Himself (excuse my grammar :D ). One of my first Spydies was a G10 Endura and the spine was not exactly flush with the scales and blade. My one lock backs were an ss dragonfly and frn dragonfly. Both were perdfectly flat and even. My Endura was maybe, maybe half a millimeter off from perfect. I thought all Sypides were perfect and considered it defective. I emailed Charlynn and she told me to send it in. Upon inspection, she said it was in spec, but that she was replacing it for me with one that would meet my expectations. I was happy to death. I thought she would just send it back. I now have well over 30 spydies and know that my first Endura was really fine, but they helped me out to meet my needs. I'm no longer so picky be cause I've also learned more about knife making opfrom this forum. Some will not be perfect, but as long as the function and cosmetics are solid, I'm good to go.
Long story short, you're within your rights to be unsatisfied and to send it back. I'm sure you'll get the typical spyderco service and be a happy customer for life. If not, pm me about the CF native (joke, not soliciting hahaha :D :o )
___________________________________________ 2011: G10 Dragonfly ^ Breeden Rescue ^ Bug ^ Honeybee ^ Centofante 3 ^ Woodcraft Mule ^SFO Visit Buys = Frn Stretch & Native 4 CF!! ^ Salt 1 ^ Burgundy Calypso ZDP-189 ^ Walker Blue Almite ^ Native 5 ^ Squeak ^ Chaparral ^ Urban Olive Green ^ STREET BEAT!!...
2012: Caly Jr (vintage/NIB!), SS Navigator-fave LBK of all time, Jester, Orange Dodo, CS Orange PM2,Techno, Bradley! AIR!!
I have been in your situation before and i know it can be frustrating but i would contact the seller before you get all worked up about it and at least give them the op to make it right. The seller may not look at every knife that leaves the shop so just let them know you are unhappy and see how they handle the situation.
It is your money and you have every right to be happy with your purchase.
To better explain my frustration, perhaps I should break down some of the financial implications of this product not being up to par out of the box.
Firstly, I am Canadian. Just getting this ~$175 knife here in the first place cost me $225 USD by the time shipping and customs were included. Now the added costs associated with my nationality are not Spyderco's responsibility! Unfortunately, it does entail that for me to ship this knife back to Spyderco, to let them make it the way it should have been out of the box, will almost certainly cost me an additional $35 by the time I get it back through customs (that's allowing $10 for the shipping and $25 for the discretionless tax on something I already own, if anyone is wondering).
Even removing all of those added costs of shipping and customs, what was originally a $175 becomes a $210 knife (note that in practice for me, that changes it from a $225 US knife to a $260 one). While it doesn't bother me that I have to pay initially more than an American customer for this knife, it does bother me that I have to pay more again to make it right.
Now perhaps I could take an hour and re-profile the edge myself. Unfortunately, that is not free either; that hour is valuable to me. If this was an inexpensive knife then I would be prepared to invest some labour in order to make it just right, but I paid the $170 sticker price for this premium product largely so that I wouldn't have to do that.
Simply, I find it unreasonable that I should have to either invest considerable additional labour or money into this product to make it the way it should have been right from the start.
See if the seller will cover the shipping cost or at least split it..You never know until you ask and if it is a problem with the workmanship or QC then they should cove it. If not then i would find a local shop where you can inspect the knives before you buy.
I understand your frustration, but I personally wouldn't be unhappy with it. I have received a few knives (of varying price levels) with uneven grinds like that, but they all cut just fine, and perform as they should.
If you're buying production knives as art pieces (and there's nothing wrong with that), you should always inspect before buying. Because imperfections will never be completely eliminated in production items.
I hope you get the issue resolved. Personally, I'd stick it in my pocket and use the heck out of it.
Have you called anyone on the phone yet or just "called out" the president for his thoughts?
I'm sorry but your tone is precocious and more amature than the grind job.
The reason you may have gotten a bad knife is because people aren't perfect. I doubt any factory edge will be up to your expectation (perfection). Do it yourself and show us the results.
Excuse my perspective but a phone call is next to free, and email is even cheaper.
I don't mean to group you into the masses of W&R customers. We all have purchased flawed or items we view as such. There just is no use getting agitated until you have facts and a plan. I've seen Sal go to great lengths when asked rudely, I'm sure when asked politely his team jump to fix things. Isn't that the best kind of marketing?
Would many of us be satisfied? Yes.
Are you asking us rhetorically or did you want the truth?
I appreciate the feedback! Unfortunately, the online seller has not been willing to agree to anything more than refunding the original purchase price independent of all of the associated shipping costs. So I'd have to ship the knife back at additional expense, and then get $175 refunded from the $225 I've already spent. Meanwhile, although I am very much inclined to support local business where possible: I am aware of no high quality brick and mortar knife stores in my area.
In this, I don't mean to broadly criticize Spyderco. I have had many excellent products from Spyderco in the past. However, in this instance I feel like their quality control has burned me, and badly enough that I will likely be reluctant to buy another product from them. This whole potential administrative mess originated because they failed to carefully finish a product, and it is as simple as that. Whatever other errors or factors occurred along the way: the issue originated at the factory at which this item was produced. With just a little bit of extra care on their part, I would have been a fully satisfied customer, rather than a deeply frustrated one.
I am posting this not because I want to flame Spyderco or take business away from them. I am posting because I think that they have been careless in this instance, and because I think that this sort of thing may hurt their business.
I appreciate the continuing feedback. To be honest, I didn't buy this knife because of its appearance. I bought it because it has Native ergonomics with a full flat grind on the blade. I sure wish it had jimping on the spine the way the my standard Native does, and the detent in the lock back as well. A deep carry wire clip like on my Caly3 would have been nice, too... But I bought this Native mainly because of the flat blade. Unfortunately, Spyderco doesn't offer that in an FRN or G10 handle as I'd prefer. They only offer it here in this extra premium product. And I agreed to pay for that premium product, but with the expectation that it would be a premium product, rather than just a more expensive one, that I'd be receiving.
So now I look at this knife, and I ask: if all that extra money didn't go into fit and finish, then where did it go? I'm not expecting a Small Sebenza here, I'm just expecting some care to be taken when grinding the edge. Would I be unsatisfied with this grind on just any Spyderco? No: not really. Am I unsatisfied with this grind on a $175 (market price) Spyderco? I sure am! Am I surprised that others would not share my frustration at this, given the price point: I sure am!
But my original comment stands: if Sal (or anyone else at Spyderco) could tell me that he would be satisfied to hand this knife to a friend as an example of the quality of Spyderco products, then I'll accept my criticisms as unjustified.
If you are buying it to use it may be no big deal, but if for a collection it is a flaw. I can understand where the dealer is coming from, although I may not do the same in his pace. I have had edges like that and they can be corrected just fine on a user. But ask Spyderco for an exchange if it is for a collection.
edit: You may be getting more frustrated on this, so be nice when you contact Spyderco. remember, you catch more flies with honey then with vinegar. Actually that saying is not true, flies are more attracted to vinegar. But the people at Spyderco are more complex then flies and they prefer honey.
Feedback is one of the reasons Spyderco keeps this website going.
Now, I don't understand what the OP is asking for here? A resolution to a problem, or for Sal, or someone from Spyderco to come online and grovel for him.
Does the knife cut? What is wrong with it besides it being not perfect to the eye?
I'm afraid these things happen with hand ground knives. To be honest, I've seen many hundred dollar customs that had imperfect to the eye edges.
Personally I use my knives ( including thousand dollar customs) and when I do, I sharpen them.
By the way, I don't really consider that a huge problem. Can anyone tell? Also, including costs and waiting times to and from other countries is informative, but not spyderco's fault.
Seems like you are having a bad day. Try looking at it in the morning after some sleep. If you still aren't satisfied than get your issue resolved. Calling Sal out to comment on a knife that is in a picture that you can't really use to judge is sort of silly, to be honest. Either better pictures, from different angles, or better yet get it into his hands then ask him his opinion.
I wouldn't expect grovelling though, just a resolution to your problem.
Regards Joe / Raleigh NC
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
:o )
