Spyderco and Diving

[Damocles]

Hello Using the forum for the first time as a means of providing feedback. As a Proffesional saturation diver and former Miitary diver I have used Spyderco products for many years and would like to provide the following feedback with a view to promoting discussion and perhaps stimulating product improvement. I have used the serrated folding rescue knives for around ten years and even with the new H1 steel models the internal spring seems to fail ( Corrode) after a few weeks use I have had 3 fail to date the outcome of this is the knife blade just becomes floppy (Loose) and therfore dangerous when diving in limited visibility many of my colleuges initially impressed by the cutting power of spyderco have moved away from the brand due to this problem. I have recently trialled the new Aqua salt which is ideal and very well suited to my proffesion for cutting slings and large mooring ropes however the sheath is not user friendly for underwater use and we need a diving friendly sheath design the knife is perfect the sheath is in urgent need of improvement to allow a diver to carry it safely and securely do this and it will dominate the market

Please can anyone advise why the springs in the folders fails it is a shame that such excellent blades are protected against corrosion H1 but the internal components fail after several weeks use ?? I spend 28 days at a time in saturation completing 7 hour lockouts each day for 23 days usually I throw a knife away every 2-3 weeks

Any suggestions

Damocles - Bell Diver North Sea UK

[NoFair]

Welcome to the forum, nice to see another Spyderco user who dives.

If they fail due to corrosion you could probably send them in and have them replaced free of charge.

I've had mine in salt water for a few weeks at the time with no issues, if they lock up tightly you might just need to tighten the pivot.

I've dived with the Aquasalt and agree that the sheath isn't really suited for it. If they made a diving sheath for it I'd buy it. I've been looking into making my own from Kydex, but too many other projects have put it on the back burner.

Bought 2 Caspian Salt diving knives and will see how they work out.

Caspian salt: http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=289

I'm going for the blunt tipped version since I think my drysuit was about $2000+ if bought in a civilian store.

[dbcad]

Welcome Damocles,

I don't have any folding H1 knives, but I do own an Aqua Salt and Caspian Salt in H1. I am not a diver, but it feels good to know I can get these blades wet and dirty without worry of corrosion.

What specifically about the Aqua Salt sheath doesn't work under water? Curious. Glad you like the blade though. My SE Aqua is called on to cut all of the really tough stuff(corn cobs, messes of tangled plastic and cardboard, etc.).

Charlie

[The Deacon]

I'm sure Sal will chime in on this at some point. Does seem odd that, given the number of H-1 folders Spyderco has sold over the past six years, this is the first report I can recall reading of one, much less three, of them failing due to corroded springs.

[sal]

Hi Damocles,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum and thanx much for chiming in.

Sorry for your inconvenience. As Deacon mentioned, this is not a common problem.

"Real world" Input is very important to our product development. Is it possible for us to retrieve these broken knives. We'll be happy to replace them, but we need to analyse the situation and find out what the problem is.

On the sheath for the Aqua, again, suggestions would be great.

Gail and I are PADI divers so we understand what you're in.

sal

[tonydahose]

sorry to hear about your failures. i dive with the fire dept here and i 2nd the caspian dive knife. if your hands arent too big the use of the hole for your finger to go thru will work with gloves. it is a great design, i just wish they made it in a bigger size. you have good control over the knife and it allows you to use your hands for something else while still retaining the knife. Sal, speaking of the caspian, i was just talking with our dive commander, Ron, and he said he was in contact with you over some dive knife designs and you sent him a few mockups but he was too busy to follow up on them and he is more of the mentality that rescue divers dont have a need for a knife, shears can do the job just as well and you wont accidentally cut your BC or suit by accident. i dont agree but he is the boss :) .

[NoFair]

Spyderco had some great shears a few years ago, sorry they didn't go into production...

Remember quite a few of the EMTs liked them in Leeds. Not gonna post a pic , but they were nice.

Sverre

[tonydahose]

one, why not post a pic...maybe in another thread and two, this is the first i ever heard of spydie shears.

[NoFair]

one, why not post a pic...maybe in another thread and two, this is the first i ever heard of spydie shears.

Proto pics are a no no Tony :p

Sverre

[sal]

Hi Tony,

Thanx for the input.

We have a concept model shear made from H1, but the cost, hence the price would be quite high so we put the project on hold.

We're still working on shears though, but not for the dive industry.

We would likew to retrieve those knives from Damocles. They are the only report that we have for rusting of the springs and we'll like to study them.

We've also like to hear what suggestions there might be for a better sheath.

sal

[NoFair]

I normally wear a mid sized dive knife on the inside of my left calf (I'm right handed). For that I prefer the traditional sheath with a rubber strap on the top and bottom and a rubber loop to secure the knife.

For smaller ones the sheath on the Caspian is fine.

Sverre

[Freediver]

Hello folks,

I have dove with the Aqua Salt, the Pacific Salt, the Spyderhawk Salt, and the Caspian.

I bought the Caspian for a friend of mine who is an avid SCUBA diver. I have to admit, the sheath system could be a little better. The straps on it were not good enough to actually hold it on your thigh. For it to work better they would have to be made out of rubber, and a little thicker. He ended up just lashing it to his BC without the straps and he loves it.

I used to own the Aqua Salt (and admittedly Ebayed it off) and dove with it a few times, mostly free diving. The sheath is a little bulky for the knife, and the clip was not suitable for a dive belt. I was afraid it was going to fall off until I attached it with some zip ties. I really liked the Aqua Salt. The only reason I chose not to use it anymore was I felt it was a little large for a dive knife. It was an absolutely great knife though.

My current favorite SCUBA diving knife is my Spyderhawk salt. I'll attach a picture to show how I have it latched on to my BC. I had a sheath made from Mike Sastre that I zip tied onto one of the straps and it works great. Not bulky and really easy to get with one hand and replace.

When I freedive and I am just casual with boardshorts and no weight belt I keep my Pacific Salt in my pocket. It is lightweight I don't even notice it is there. I also own a ladybug that is always on my keys, so that always ends up in the water with me too.

Now, I usually always wash all of my gear when I get out of the water, no matter what. Ideally this is what needs to be done. There have been many times though, like when I have been on extended dives (or night dives and I'm too lazy) or camping where my knives were not washed after being in the ocean.

I have never had a single problem at all with them, besides the standard "H1" logo rusting. I use them for standard fishing/diving activities and they have all held up perfectly. I am actually going to take my Pacific in my pocket right now to go free dive.

[Fozzy]

Damocles, Have you ever tried a spray lubricant? I've had great results with CRC 3-36

http://www.crcind.com.au/catalogue.nsf/ ... enDocument

Rinse your gear and spray on a liberal amount of CRC 3-36, I mean really hose it- Especially the spring and pivot on a folder- and let it dry. If you want to, apply it a second time and let it dry.

I dive with a couple of older Spyderco dive knives (Pre-Diver and Diver Probe) that I've treated with CRC 3-36. Both have intact springs and function just fine.

[Michael Janich]

As Spyderco's Special Projects Coordinator, I have a keen interest in improving our sheath designs. I would also welcome input on the Aqua Salt sheath and what would make it more suitable as a dive sheath. If there are any dive knife sheaths out there that you would consider deal, please share that information as well.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Pete1977]

I don't think I have ever had anything corrode on any of the salts I have used commercial fishing, recreational boating, swimming, etc. And I never really cleaned or otherwise maintained them after exposure to salt water, bait brine, etc... I am under the impression that everything that is metallic on the knife is H-1 including the internal spring? or titanium (pocket clip.)

[The Deacon]

I don't think I have ever had anything corrode on any of the salts I have used commercial fishing, recreational boating, swimming, etc. And I never really cleaned or otherwise maintained them after exposure to salt water, bait brine, etc... I am under the impression that everything that is metallic on the knife is H-1 including the internal spring? or titanium (pocket clip.)

Pete, I don't think all the parts are H-1, lockbar probably is, but the spring and hardware may very well not be. From something Sal said to me once, I think there are a number of steels which match H-1 in terms of their inability to rust and are considerably less expensive. They're just not suitable for use as blade steel.

The key here may be that the OP is/was a saturation diver, the knives would have been with him in the pressurized habitat. Based on the limited reading I've done about that, it seems possible that the gas mix there may be both oxygen rich and under higher than normal pressure. Those factors, plus salt water on the knife, may combine to allow a steel which would not normally corrode to do so.