Working edge retention vs. fine edge retention

[catamount]

When folks here talk about the edge retention of a particular steel, they are usually referring to how long it will hold a working edge. A working edge is just that, an edge that works. It will cut what needs to be cut. It may not pop hairs on your arm, or cleanly cut paper, but it will get the job done.

A fine edge is the kind of edge that most :spyder: s come from the factory with. It will pop hairs, cleanly cut paper, maybe even whittle hair. It will glide through many materials with minimal pressure.

What can be confusing, and took me some time to figure out, is that working edge retention and fine edge retention are not necessarily proportional in a given steel. Take S30V and VG-10, for example. IME, S30V holds a working edge for a long time, but loses a fine edge fairly quickly. VG-10, on the other hand, keeps a fine edge longer, but doesn't hold a working edge as long.

My knife usage and preferences are weighted more towards fine edge retention. That's one reason I prefer VG-10. YMMV

[Evil D]

Seems nothing i've used holds a hair popping edge for very long at all no matter how i sharpen them. After that it comes down to the working edge retention which usually follows the harder steels.

[dj moonbat]

Seems nothing i've used holds a hair popping edge for very long at all no matter how i sharpen them. After that it comes down to the working edge retention which usually follows the harder steels.

This is why straight razor shavers strop their blades daily. Popping hairs is actually not very kind to steel.

[Vincent]

I always talk about a working edge. I really don't care if my blades are at their sharpest as I don't really need them to be. I have certainly never sharpened a knife and had it as sharp as they come directly from the factory or resharpening.


All of my knives are S30V, except my new UKPN FRN which is Gin-1. The S30V models can go months without being sharpened with daily use.

[kingdomgone]

The S30V models can go months without being sharpened with daily use.

This is absolutely true. I punish both S30V and VG-10 blades daily and I'm very pleased with how both of these steels hold up for work. As far as I'm concerned Spyderco can continue to make all of their knives with one of these steels for the foreseeable future and I will continue to be a happy customer.

[tanrichguy]

I've had my Para2 for more than a month now and have yet to sharpen it, even after daily use on cardboard box after box, zip-ties, the occasional wire stripping, etc.
I think I've run it across my strop maybe 2 separate times for like 5 minutes total. It's still plenty sharp.

I like S30V.

[Water Bug]

When folks here talk about the edge retention of a particular steel, they are usually referring to how long it will hold a working edge. A working edge is just that, an edge that works. It will cut what needs to be cut. It may not pop hairs on your arm, or cleanly cut paper, but it will get the job done.

Excellent point! This has been something I've noticed over the years. I've had knives where the edge won't shave hair or slice cleanly through paper, but it certainly makes a clean, almost effortless cut through leather.

[The Mastiff]

I too like edges with good strength and edge stability as well as regular hard carbide type wear resistance.

The high vanadium steels such as S90V are great for certain things but I find myself EDC'ing more compromise steels on a daily basis. Steels like M2 and M4 at higher hardness levels have lots of hard carbides, yet still can keep those sharp, sharp edges that I like so well. Cruware/vascoware is similar, but sort of in a different category.

3V is a Vanadium steel, without doubt but it does pretty well on it's edges , sharpness wise. 52100 is great on getting those really great hair popping edges, as are similar steels but they fall behind when the (abrasive) going gets tough. I do like them though. The Hitachi steels ( white and blue 1, 2, and super) are dreams come true as well for taking and keeping edges and seem to do really well at the high hardnesses I like . A dream knife for me has always been a blue steel police or endura at an RC of 60-62, which these steels do easily without getting chippy.

I have two S125V knives, one at RC 62, and one at RC 64-65 and while the overall abrasive resistance is something to behold, the practical usage of this steel is more suited to the all day carpet cutting jobs than the fine edge stuff I like.

S90V is a stainless with all kinds of wear resistance, but at a maximum hardness of RC 61 ( customs only, factorys are more like 58-59) it just doesn't have the e4dge stability I like.

So, basicly I want the edge of my 52100 mule at RC 62, but the abrasive resistance of S90V/10V. There is currently no such animal I've found but some of them come pretty close. AS I stated M2 at RC 65, CPM M4 at 64-65 do come pretty close.

I'm still working on trying new steels though, and I almost hope I never find it. The fun is in the looking, for me anyway. :)

I've been playing with elmax, M390/20CV, and an O-1 custom at RC 64ish lately, but I'm still mostly carrying VG10, and ZDP with a lot of work with 8C lately.

BTW, I think that 8C is a very underated steel. It's limits will surprise some.

[Antonio_Luiz]

I always put on the finest edge the knife will hold in its applications, prefer a convexed or micro-convexed edge, and I also have a habit of stropping my knives frequently - both before and after use - which is one reason I tend to avoid serrated edges. My belief is that the best edge is the one that you never let get dull - or abuse. Learn to maintain your knives properly - no edge lasts forever and keeping that edge sharp is a lot easier than trying to sharpen one that has been allowed to become blunt

[dbcad]

I hear you Antonio, I try to do the same. It's a good feeling knowing that several very sharp blades are always at your disposal :D I don't think a knife should ever be allowed to get dull if you can help it. "A sharp knife is a safe knife". :D For me it only takes a minute or so on the Sharpmaker or less.

The steels I have from vg-10 to ZDP 189 are tough for me to dull with a single cutting excersize. Others have different uses than the relatively light ones I have I know, but nipping it in the bud has worked best for me :)

Charlie

Charlie

[Lord vader]

I always put on the finest edge the knife will hold in its applications, prefer a convexed or micro-convexed edge, and I also have a habit of stropping my knives frequently - both before and after use - which is one reason I tend to avoid serrated edges. My belief is that the best edge is the one that you never let get dull - or abuse. Learn to maintain your knives properly - no edge lasts forever and keeping that edge sharp is a lot easier than trying to sharpen one that has been allowed to become blunt

That is so true,and well said.I made that mistake letting my native get dull,and didn`t have a good working edge and it was a real job trying to get the edge back on it.

[dj moonbat]

Touching up my edges is fun for me, so edge retention isn't a huge consideration for me. But the ability to get an edge that really sings? That's key.

[The Deacon]

Working edge is all I aim for. Of course, what constitutes a working edge can vary tremendously. On an X-Acto blade, there's no appriciable difference between "hair popping sharp" and a working edge. On this guy, used only to cut cornbread in a teflon lined pan, "butter knife dull" is a working edge. :D Everything else falls somewhere in between.

[dj moonbat]

Paul, how is the edge retention on that cornbread knife? Which is better for that -- maple, or cherry?