In one corner we have Linerlock. In the other corner we have Lockback. Which one will win? What is your favorite?
In the land of knives, Spyderco is king.
Linerlock vs Lockback
Lockback: Very secure, out of the way when cutting, but harder to close because it is out of the way. Governed by a second spring, allowing for a wide variety of lock strengths.
Linerlock: Less secure; I've never trusted them. Always seems like my finger would rest on the lock release and accidentally trip the lock if I grabbed the handle firmly. However, it's much easier to close, since you don't have to shift your hold on the knife to access the lock. The lock is part of the liner, making adjustment easier for a stiffer lock, but it's only as stiff as the thickness of the liner allows it to be. They also seem like they'd wear the side of the tang faster, leading to blade play in an old knife.
My favorite, far and away, is the lockback. I've yet to see a linerlock that didn't look too flimsy to trust (and therefore have not bought any of Spyderco's linerlocking knives, even though they're probably as trustworthy as linerlocks get). I might try the compression lock, though.
Linerlock: Less secure; I've never trusted them. Always seems like my finger would rest on the lock release and accidentally trip the lock if I grabbed the handle firmly. However, it's much easier to close, since you don't have to shift your hold on the knife to access the lock. The lock is part of the liner, making adjustment easier for a stiffer lock, but it's only as stiff as the thickness of the liner allows it to be. They also seem like they'd wear the side of the tang faster, leading to blade play in an old knife.
My favorite, far and away, is the lockback. I've yet to see a linerlock that didn't look too flimsy to trust (and therefore have not bought any of Spyderco's linerlocking knives, even though they're probably as trustworthy as linerlocks get). I might try the compression lock, though.
Tough call, I like both for different reasons.
Theoretically the liner lock is slightly weaker, although I have never had a problem with them, not even noticed a sign of weakness. It's stregnth is that it is a really slick opener. Liner locks are so slick I don't really see the point of automatic knives. Even a wrist flick will open most folders.
Lock backs are some of the strongest locks out there. They can be slower to open than a liner lock, especially in some FRN handles. Another reason I like them so much is they are truely ambidexturous opening AND closing, liner locks can be difficult or almost impossible to close left handed.
On balance I prefer the lock backs.
You might also look at the compression locks. They have all the stregnth (if not more) of the lock backs, the ease of opening of the liner lock, and are largely ambidexterous.
"Walk softly, but carry a big stick."
Theoretically the liner lock is slightly weaker, although I have never had a problem with them, not even noticed a sign of weakness. It's stregnth is that it is a really slick opener. Liner locks are so slick I don't really see the point of automatic knives. Even a wrist flick will open most folders.
Lock backs are some of the strongest locks out there. They can be slower to open than a liner lock, especially in some FRN handles. Another reason I like them so much is they are truely ambidexturous opening AND closing, liner locks can be difficult or almost impossible to close left handed.
On balance I prefer the lock backs.
You might also look at the compression locks. They have all the stregnth (if not more) of the lock backs, the ease of opening of the liner lock, and are largely ambidexterous.
"Walk softly, but carry a big stick."
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sam the man..
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- Location: Kuala Lumpur Malaysia
Oooooh! Lock-Wars!
Very touchy subject... <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> I agree with most that the lockback is reliable in any situation. Its a bid rigid, but nevertheless, does the job. One of the toughest Spydie, the Chinook is a lockback. Its built tough and easy to maintain in the field...
Liners, on the other hand, became a romanticised battle between those loyal to it and sceptists.. One thing is for sure, if you drop the liner in mud, no matter how thick it is, it'll hard to fold your knife back.. Sand and fine mud particles will fill the gap on the liners and cause it to jam. You'll spend hours by stripping down the knife to clean it.... <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Sam
have spydies will travel
Very touchy subject... <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> I agree with most that the lockback is reliable in any situation. Its a bid rigid, but nevertheless, does the job. One of the toughest Spydie, the Chinook is a lockback. Its built tough and easy to maintain in the field...
Liners, on the other hand, became a romanticised battle between those loyal to it and sceptists.. One thing is for sure, if you drop the liner in mud, no matter how thick it is, it'll hard to fold your knife back.. Sand and fine mud particles will fill the gap on the liners and cause it to jam. You'll spend hours by stripping down the knife to clean it.... <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Sam
have spydies will travel
When ever this subject comes up I get really tickled
because if the various lock type were lumper into broad
catigories there would be only two.......locking back &
rear of blade (linerlock types).
ALL of the locking methods have only the tang of the blade
to work with which is basicly three sides, top (back) end (linerlock)
bottom (none). So as you can see saying a lockback is better than a
liner lock is relative to the mechanism employed to lock the blade.
The conventional lockback will always be somewhat stronger due
to the designs tang engagemen "finger" that interlock within the top
of the blade. Conversely the framelock compensates somewhat for a
linerlocks frailness by employing a section of the frame to block the
rear of the tang.
On a pure mechanical basis the Locking back type will have the edge
simple because of the "finger" extending the locking surface area.
Where a rear tang lock will at best be an interferance fit subject to
accidental disengagement.
For most daily use knive the lock tpye makes little differance. For
me I will always choose the locking back types as they are as a rule
cheaper to make and much more reliable in a mass produce product.
because if the various lock type were lumper into broad
catigories there would be only two.......locking back &
rear of blade (linerlock types).
ALL of the locking methods have only the tang of the blade
to work with which is basicly three sides, top (back) end (linerlock)
bottom (none). So as you can see saying a lockback is better than a
liner lock is relative to the mechanism employed to lock the blade.
The conventional lockback will always be somewhat stronger due
to the designs tang engagemen "finger" that interlock within the top
of the blade. Conversely the framelock compensates somewhat for a
linerlocks frailness by employing a section of the frame to block the
rear of the tang.
On a pure mechanical basis the Locking back type will have the edge
simple because of the "finger" extending the locking surface area.
Where a rear tang lock will at best be an interferance fit subject to
accidental disengagement.
For most daily use knive the lock tpye makes little differance. For
me I will always choose the locking back types as they are as a rule
cheaper to make and much more reliable in a mass produce product.
I know this might not really answer your question, but it's still something to think about... just my personal opinion on knives and locks, so your milage may vary.
I really am not picky about the lock on a folder, of the one's I currently carry, one is an axis lock, the other is a liner lock. I have carried about all the others in the past, and been more impressed with some than with others. I have experienced enough failures with locks, 2, that I am sorta against folding knives for all medium-hard use duties. I feel that as long as the folder is made by a competent company, and has decent fit and finish, then it will perform as I need it to, which is light duty work such as opening boxes and mail, trimming string, cutting occasional small rope, and assisting at the dinner table when the provided cutlery doesn't work as it should. For everything else I pick up a fixed blade. I carry a neck knife daily for this task, and a small range of other blades when they are called for.
Always remember, they call it a fixed blade because it isn't broken in the middle, and all locks can be given a failure rating, a point where they are EXPECTED to no longer hold, and your fingers are left to keep the blade out of the handle.
I really am not picky about the lock on a folder, of the one's I currently carry, one is an axis lock, the other is a liner lock. I have carried about all the others in the past, and been more impressed with some than with others. I have experienced enough failures with locks, 2, that I am sorta against folding knives for all medium-hard use duties. I feel that as long as the folder is made by a competent company, and has decent fit and finish, then it will perform as I need it to, which is light duty work such as opening boxes and mail, trimming string, cutting occasional small rope, and assisting at the dinner table when the provided cutlery doesn't work as it should. For everything else I pick up a fixed blade. I carry a neck knife daily for this task, and a small range of other blades when they are called for.
Always remember, they call it a fixed blade because it isn't broken in the middle, and all locks can be given a failure rating, a point where they are EXPECTED to no longer hold, and your fingers are left to keep the blade out of the handle.
I have a Lil Temperance which I love.
This knife has a compression lock.
The compression lock has steel in between steel and is every bit as strong as a lockback mechanism.
Further, I find the compression lock easier to use than the lockback (almost easier than the Walker lock).
One way or the other, you pay for your tools!
This knife has a compression lock.
The compression lock has steel in between steel and is every bit as strong as a lockback mechanism.
Further, I find the compression lock easier to use than the lockback (almost easier than the Walker lock).
One way or the other, you pay for your tools!
Hi, Rookie--
I'm not so much voting for any particular style of lock as I am just trying to contribute some food for thought. . .
One attribute of the two locks in question that hasn't yet been addressed is the fact that they FAIL differently (not to be pessimistic or anything!) When a lockback fails, it does so catastrophically--there's nothing left to prevent it from closing all the way, except the user's fingers. When a linerlock or compression lock fails the metal buckles but still remains in the path of the blade's closing motion, so you've got a bent knife (so-to-speak) in your hand, but not an unexpectedly-closed knife sandwiching your fingers.
Another consideration is long-term wear. Well-made liner- and compression locks are designed to self-adjust to compensate for the wear of metal on metal every time the knife is opened and the lock engages. With the added feature of an eccentric pivot pin, the knife can be readjusted as necessary to provide optimum lock engagement and eliminate verticle play. When a lockback develops vertical play, it's got vertical play forever.
Like I said, I'm just adding to the discussion. May sound like I'm biased against lockbacks but, for the record, my primary carrys are a pair of Natives (American versions).
Have a good weekend,
Vince
". . .the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack."
R. Kipling
Edited by - mr. V on 2/15/2002 2:59:06 PM
I'm not so much voting for any particular style of lock as I am just trying to contribute some food for thought. . .
One attribute of the two locks in question that hasn't yet been addressed is the fact that they FAIL differently (not to be pessimistic or anything!) When a lockback fails, it does so catastrophically--there's nothing left to prevent it from closing all the way, except the user's fingers. When a linerlock or compression lock fails the metal buckles but still remains in the path of the blade's closing motion, so you've got a bent knife (so-to-speak) in your hand, but not an unexpectedly-closed knife sandwiching your fingers.
Another consideration is long-term wear. Well-made liner- and compression locks are designed to self-adjust to compensate for the wear of metal on metal every time the knife is opened and the lock engages. With the added feature of an eccentric pivot pin, the knife can be readjusted as necessary to provide optimum lock engagement and eliminate verticle play. When a lockback develops vertical play, it's got vertical play forever.
Like I said, I'm just adding to the discussion. May sound like I'm biased against lockbacks but, for the record, my primary carrys are a pair of Natives (American versions).
Have a good weekend,
Vince
". . .the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack."
R. Kipling
Edited by - mr. V on 2/15/2002 2:59:06 PM
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Sword and Shield
- Member
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- Location: USA
Mr. V- love that sig line! One of those few quotes which truly expresses both self- and group-reliance. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
As for locks, I straddle the fence most fervently. I like linerlocks for ease of use, but some companies' linerlocks have a problem with disengaging. However, I have found a well-made linerlock sufficient for light to medium cutting tasks.
Linerlocks also can be deployed faster, in most cases. I can cycle my Kershaw linerlock in 3 seconds, haven't come close with a lockback.
Lockbacks, OTOH, are far superior in terms of strength and stability. My working knives are all traditional lockbacks, either tail or mid-frame. This inherent strength and stability explains the MBC trend towards lockbacks, as they will not fail, except under EXTREME pressure.
There are my <clink, clink> two cents on the matter. It all boils down to task.
Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.
As for locks, I straddle the fence most fervently. I like linerlocks for ease of use, but some companies' linerlocks have a problem with disengaging. However, I have found a well-made linerlock sufficient for light to medium cutting tasks.
Linerlocks also can be deployed faster, in most cases. I can cycle my Kershaw linerlock in 3 seconds, haven't come close with a lockback.
Lockbacks, OTOH, are far superior in terms of strength and stability. My working knives are all traditional lockbacks, either tail or mid-frame. This inherent strength and stability explains the MBC trend towards lockbacks, as they will not fail, except under EXTREME pressure.
There are my <clink, clink> two cents on the matter. It all boils down to task.
Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.
Some really good replies here. Matching the knife to the task
is probably one of the better ones assuming that the owner has both
the knowledge and the availablity ot tool selection.
There is one type os lock that seldom gets mentioned and may not
be tought of as a lock at all ,but it is. That is the slipjoint folder.
The back spring of the slipjoint is the "lock" that holds the blade both
open & closed. With the very long history of the slipjoint in all types of
folding knives I'd have to say that it is by far the most common. This
type of lock ,as we all know , is not intended to prvent the blade from
closing in situations that require any thrusting,but , at time they do that
fairly well.
To me the slipjoint doesn't get is due of attention because it has
little or no "toy" value that the various blade locks do. Considering
that a slipjoint will keep the blade open during use the only other
purpose the other locking methods offer is a somewhat higher level
of security to the carless or novice user who insist on trying to use
a folding knife like a fixed blade.
is probably one of the better ones assuming that the owner has both
the knowledge and the availablity ot tool selection.
There is one type os lock that seldom gets mentioned and may not
be tought of as a lock at all ,but it is. That is the slipjoint folder.
The back spring of the slipjoint is the "lock" that holds the blade both
open & closed. With the very long history of the slipjoint in all types of
folding knives I'd have to say that it is by far the most common. This
type of lock ,as we all know , is not intended to prvent the blade from
closing in situations that require any thrusting,but , at time they do that
fairly well.
To me the slipjoint doesn't get is due of attention because it has
little or no "toy" value that the various blade locks do. Considering
that a slipjoint will keep the blade open during use the only other
purpose the other locking methods offer is a somewhat higher level
of security to the carless or novice user who insist on trying to use
a folding knife like a fixed blade.
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AllenETreat
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: The Constitution State USA
To ALL :
I like'em BOTH ; liner-lock on my C 29BK
"Cricket" and Centofante C 25GS "secure loc"
lock-back on my "Matriarch", "Native",
"Endura","Calypso Jr.". Oops ! Almost forgot
the liner-lock on my "Spydercard".
Then, there is the compression-lock on
my C 66 "Vesuvius" and phantom-lock on my
"Meerkat". What do these ALL have in
common ? They're ALL Spydies !
In the world of knives, Spyderco is
King ( REGARDLESS of locking mechanism ! )
ATE ( alias A.E.T. )
I like'em BOTH ; liner-lock on my C 29BK
"Cricket" and Centofante C 25GS "secure loc"
lock-back on my "Matriarch", "Native",
"Endura","Calypso Jr.". Oops ! Almost forgot
the liner-lock on my "Spydercard".
Then, there is the compression-lock on
my C 66 "Vesuvius" and phantom-lock on my
"Meerkat". What do these ALL have in
common ? They're ALL Spydies !
In the world of knives, Spyderco is
King ( REGARDLESS of locking mechanism ! )
ATE ( alias A.E.T. )
I agree with Mr.V on lock failure and lock wear. Early on with the liner lock I read a lot about how lock failure would result in the blade being locked open due to the liner being jammed between the blade tang and opposite liner. Of course if the lock failed in the other direction...........
Sal said it when he said "must be made right or ALL bad" Thats the key!
With that said I prefer the integral lock, i.e. SEBENZA!!! Love them 'benza's
Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
Php. 4:13
"For the word of God is living and sharper than any double-edged sword."
Hbw. 4:12
Sal said it when he said "must be made right or ALL bad" Thats the key!
With that said I prefer the integral lock, i.e. SEBENZA!!! Love them 'benza's
Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
Php. 4:13
"For the word of God is living and sharper than any double-edged sword."
Hbw. 4:12
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revolvergeek
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Louisiana USA
I think that Mr. V summed it up well.
Personally I have prefered liner locks over conventional lockbacks due to their ease/speed of use. Just started playing with a compression lock and a BM with an axis lock and both seem to be "better" than a conventional liner lock or lockback. I don't get out in the woods as often as I would like or to the beach that often so the problems of cleaner the liner out if it gets dirty is not that big of an issue to me.
I have had several lockbacks wear out and fail (no Spydercos) to the point where the blade would close from finger pressure on the spine. The worst thing that has ever happend to any of my liner-locks was a couple developed some slight front-to-back wobble.
Overall I think that the quality of the knife and matching its overall design to the intended use is more important than which lock is used.
Personally I have prefered liner locks over conventional lockbacks due to their ease/speed of use. Just started playing with a compression lock and a BM with an axis lock and both seem to be "better" than a conventional liner lock or lockback. I don't get out in the woods as often as I would like or to the beach that often so the problems of cleaner the liner out if it gets dirty is not that big of an issue to me.
I have had several lockbacks wear out and fail (no Spydercos) to the point where the blade would close from finger pressure on the spine. The worst thing that has ever happend to any of my liner-locks was a couple developed some slight front-to-back wobble.
Overall I think that the quality of the knife and matching its overall design to the intended use is more important than which lock is used.