Chokwe Pics

[clovisc]

It wasn't so long ago that Sal teased us with the possibly of pictures of the new Chokwe Folder. Whatever became of that idea??? :D :D :D

[Bluntrauma]

Not funny. You got me :D

[The Deacon]

Just so you don't think I'm the hold up, last I heard, Sal mentioned he wouldn't have the time to send it to me until after SHOT.

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.p ... 950&page=7

Of course someone might get and post pictures of it at the show, and, IIRC, Sal, Kristi, or Alan posted some nice shots of something in the past couple weeks which I'm assuming were taken in Golden, so perhaps they've acquired the capability to do it in house.

[clovisc]

I'm back briefly vacationing in Delaware, and have been reunited with my collection of Chokwe fixed blades. Here are some of the originals... :D They're all shaving sharp.

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090154.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090154.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

The mpoko (knife) in the middle is sized the same as the blade I sent to Sal. The large one was put to work quite a bit in the bush, and in my village. I used to be pretty good at killing the speedy little house lizards with them... :eek: The smaller knife was custom made, against the blacksmith's wishes... I had to pay him extra to do it. He kept insisting that a knife that small was useless.

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090159.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090159.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I had a LOT of free time, and modified a couple of my knives, using just a tiny file and my sharpmaker stones... The one on the bottom, though crude, was the best little personal fixed blade ever, perfect in a number of grips and excellent for repeated cutting tasks! (Hey Mr. Schempp... if you get bored, try copying this design. It's right up your alley!)

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090160.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090160.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

One of my own, crude attempts at a little knife for mangos.

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090161.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090161.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Lunda knife, bought from a child in Matushi for $0.40 US. He felt like he was stealing from me, because it was enough to buy a brand new replacement!

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090162.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090162.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Same knife as above, other side.

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090165.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090165.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Lunda knife with wooden "case" (sheath). Bought on a roadside in Mwinilunga District of Northwest Province. These are fancier knives, sold to weathy Zambian travellers.

<a href="http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090166.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q220 ... 090166.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Bemba vegetable knife. All the other knives were forged from large nails and railroad spikes; the blade in this one appears to be cut from a sheet of metal.

[araneae]

Cool photos. Thanks for sharing them.

[untamed]

Awesome pics! Thanks for sharing as well as the cultural insight.

[feeny]

amazing stuff.

has to be said though.. how cool is the caly3 in full SE !!!!!

[clovisc]

amazing stuff.

has to be said though.. how cool is the caly3 in full SE !!!!!

pretty cool indeed! i picked mine up NIB for $50... can't believe these aren't more popular!!!! :D

[Ed Schempp]

Clovisc,
I just got back from the SHOT Show and "riding" the prototype cabinate. Gayle and Hester Bradley, designer of a very nice CPM M4 utility folder and myself helped Sal and Eric at the pleasurable "job" of showing and telling folks about the models in the case.

Sal's interpetation of the Chokwe knife is a very nice piece. It laid in the display right next to the old middle sized Chokwe shown in the picture of Clovisc's post. Black G-10 on one side, a frame lock on the other with the clip. The knife has very good ergonomics, proportion, very much is a Chokwe. It will make a great addition the ethnic series.

Thanks Sal and Clovisc...Take Care...Ed

[clovisc]

I'm so glad to hear that the knife I sent Sal is being seen by many people (the Chokwes in my village would be so proud!!!), and also glad to hear that the Spydie Chokwe seems such a hit. With such a good review from a knife designer as accomplished and skillful as Ed, it must truly be a winner... :D

Can't wait to get one! Or ten!!! :D :D :D

[untamed]

Clovisc,

Black G-10 on one side, a frame lock on the other with the clip. The knife has very good ergonomics, proportion, very much is a Chokwe. It will make a great addition the ethnic series.

Thanks Sal and Clovisc...Take Care...Ed

Whaowww!!! Now I'm really intrigued! :D

[boxer93]

I'm so glad to hear that the knife I sent Sal is being seen by many people (the Chokwes in my village would be so proud!!!), and also glad to hear that the Spydie Chokwe seems such a hit. With such a good review from a knife designer as accomplished and skillful as Ed, it must truly be a winner... :D

Can't wait to get one! Or ten!!! :D :D :D

Clovisc, Maybe once in production a couple could be sent to the villagers too :cool:
Chris

[clovisc]

i'm bumping this thread, for those interested in maybe seeing some pics of chokwe originals... :D

[Jay_Ev]

I missed this thread the first time around. Thank you for the historical perspective, clovisc :)

[Netsquash]

i'm bumping this thread, for those interested in maybe seeing some pics of chokwe originals... :D

Thanks for the bump. Upon seeing the original Chokwe's I must ask the question that I have had regarding the Chokwe since I first saw in in the IWA 2009 pics. What is the purpose of the two holes in the handle? I was curious as to their function in the Spyderco Chokwe and now that I see then in the others I am VERY curious.

What do the holes do? Is it just a design that people copy and nobody questions the function?

[clovisc]

What do the holes do? Is it just a design that people copy and nobody questions the function?

honestly, i'm not sure! on the originals, they are perfect for indexing, though. i've seen circular shapes used on other knives, and traditional objects (wooden spoons, stools, etc.). on some of my chokwe fixed blades, you can see the tang going through the holes. :D

as for the design itself, the blacksmith who made these just told me that this was what a chokwe knife was supposed to be like. he only made this design -- in the medium and large sizes. when i went to visit him, he had two huge knives, and about 25 medium sized ones. i had a really hard time getting him to make me a small knife... he said that small knives were "useless." he was most proud of the large knife, by far... and REALLY wanted me to have it. I think I paid $3. (16,000 zkw... actually closer to $4, maybe?). :D :D :D it took him FOREVER to do the smaller one... he told me that he had a hard time finding nails and railroad spikes to make his knives from.

he used a twin pump bellows set-up, which he pumped by HAND. i suggested a contraption made from a bicycle, and suggested wayne goddard's "fifty dollar knife shop" book (which i eventually obtained a copy of), but he seemed really uninterested. he beat the steel with a huge hammer, on a smallish piece of railroad tie. he sharpened up his blades at lightspeed, on a rock... back and forth at an insanely fast speed, free hand, of course... and produced some incredibly wicked edges.

people told me that this was the best way to sharpen knives or tools. a friend of mine made fun of my sharpmaker, saying "i don't think a chokwe man would want to sit using that for so long before going into the field." then i sharpened his pocket knife for him, and people started coming over asking for sharpening. i'd get requests to kill animals for people, too, because they liked seeing my spydies in action.

periodically, the blacksmith or his son (a kung fu student of mine...) would come up the road from their home back in the farming scheme with 20 knives or so, strung through the holes on a piece of bark twine, selling them for 5,000 zkw each (like $1 or so). once, i bought them all. :D that's when i picked up sal's.

i brought him a huge bag of tobacco once, as a present... :D

other chokwes proudly declared that their knives were superior to the knives of other tribes in the area (luchazi, luvale, lunda, kaonde, a few nkonye). word around the area was that the guy who made these was the best, hands down.

[Netsquash]

I truly enjoyed your story. I also enjoyed the thread where you work out the design of what is now the Chokwe providing little bits and pieces of your story along the way.


I have tons of questions, I hope you don't mind. I have a great deal of interest in different cultures and it is interesting to see how important a blade design can me to a culture.
What was your reason for living in the Zimbabwe village with the Chockwe? How long did you stay there? What kind of animals were they getting you to dispose of with your Spydercos? What did the Chockwe people think of a folding blade Spyderco? Did you give away any of your Spydercos while you were there? Did they have any sort of traditional deffensive/offensive martial bladecraft involving their knives? I have lots more questions if you don't mind answering.

[clovisc]

1. What was your reason for living in the Zimbabwe village with the Chockwe? 2. How long did you stay there? 3. What kind of animals were they getting you to dispose of with your Spydercos? 4. What did the Chockwe people think of a folding blade Spyderco? 5. Did you give away any of your Spydercos while you were there? 6. Did they have any sort of traditional deffensive/offensive martial bladecraft involving their knives? 7. I have lots more questions if you don't mind answering.

1. US Peace Corps, Zambia, attached to the Zambian Department of Aquaculuture, Mufumbwe/Kabompo Districts, 2005-2006

2. 2.5 month training in Bembaland, then about a year in Chokwe land

3. Goats, pigs, chickens, guinea fowl

4. When I suggested the idea to the local ward counciller (kinda like the mayor), he looked at me like I was crazy, and said something really simple, like: "that would be good." To most of the people there, my ideas were always strange and crazy.

5. This is very difficult to explain, but I will do my best...

Giving away items radically disrupts the social balance in the area.

When receiving a gift, especially from a visitor, especially a visitor from far away, who is white... you are receiving social status that is far more valuable than the gift. People hold onto gifts, and talk about having received them for the rest of their lives.

In Zambia, in a traditional village setting, like the one I was living in, the emphasis is on absolute equality, and doing everything possible to NOT have more than your neighbors. Trying to have more than the people around you, even in very small ways, looks extremely unusual. It usually attracts tons of attention, and accusations of witchcraft. Witchcraft accusations eventually lead to ostracism, and/or death. (Beating the witch to death with a coffin was the preferred method of execution). Yet at the same time, some people are just DYING for a legitimate excuse to have more than their neighbors (like a white man -- "chindele" -- coming to teach them fish farming). This all added a great deal of complication to what I was trying to do... trying to help people improve farming techniques, and begin fish farming, so that they could better support their families. Many people didn't WANT to improve or change, because they were very afraid of upsetting the social balance that allowed everyone to continue living together, without jealousy. Everyone kept very careful track of who had what, and how much everyone had... which made things awkward for me, as I had all sorts of "goodies" that were completely new and unusual. It was a bit sickening.

Some of the worst things I have witnessed began with me giving out extremely innocent items -- like glow sticks. Parents hiting their children, seizing whatever I gave them, proudly displaying them... other people fighting, crowds gathering... people going nuts and begging. I saw a pregnant woman pushed down to the ground and trampled by a mob of children and adults rushing to get candy that I and other peace corps volunteers were giving out, as part of a halloween celebration.

It was pretty horrible, too, the way that gifts were used to bribe voters during the election, the way that gifts are used to corrupt and persuade and cause great harm. Not so long ago, group of miners came and gave the Chief of my district a second-hand land cruiser, and in return, he gave them a plot of land, for free, which now houses a gold mine. Literally -- they mine for gold there. The police expect gifts, politicians expect gifts... gifts are politics.

My rule quickly became... "The only thing you will ever get from me is information about fish farming, farming, HIV/AIDS, etc... IF you want information. If not, that is fine." That disappointed some people... earned me the respect of others.

Many people in the US really don't understand the huge differences between cultures, paradigms. There are so many radically different but equally legitimate ways of seeing the world. It is hard to imagine, but our American understanding of "gifts" can really do a lot of harm. Even donating money can be dangerous, if the cause is not carefully chosen and researched.

Some people in my village spent the entire time I was there thinking about the things I could give them, and the social status that would convey. And then asking for these things. And not getting them, and asking again. Other people realized that the information I could give them would be far more useful, if they were careful.

Someone asked me, would I want to collect Chokwe folders to send to "my village." If they were mailed, I wouldn't trust they'd go to the people who would deserve to have them, and I'd be extremely nervous about the harm that could be done. The people I lived with are trying so hard to maintain a balanced society, and traditional values, in the face of so much change. The only way I could see giving a Chokwe folder away responsibly would be going in person, bringing one to chief Chizela, bringing one to the current ward counciller, and bringing one to the blacksmith. In person. And trying not to make a big deal out of it. But that would be next to impossible, and I'd be really worried that people would start whispering about witchcraft.

If it sounds crazy -- I agree that it kinda is.

6. Nope. The closest thing to martial arts was some of the supposed guerilla warfare stuff brought back from the folks who'd been in the UNITA conflict in Angola. And the Kung Fu I was teaching.

7. Ask away. :D

[Netsquash]

Very interesting. Glad I asked the question about giving things away. It is an entirely different way of thinking then what people of "the west" are use to.

It's clear to see that they are very much a traditional culture. The reason for things being the way there are is because that is the way they always were and is therefore the best way. They think new ideas are crazy and strange because as in most traditional cultures new ideas and different ways of thinking just aren't possible.

I asked why the knives all have two holes in and I now suspect part of the reason is because that is just the way they are made. The real reason is probably long lost. A knife under 4 inches is not worth making because knives are only functional above 4 inches because that is the only way a knife has been made and nobody has ever used a smaller knife because knives under 4 inches are worthless (circular logic). Very interesting to see how this culture works in this particular way. It's funny how witchcraft has developed as a form of power and control, similar to the way it was in Europe hundreds of years ago. "I'm jealous of you, or I don't like you. You're a witch and anybody who says anything different is also a witch and will be treated as such". The "west" also has this type of witchcraft control element even to this day. McCarthyism was another form of the witchcraft accusations of its time.

It's too bad the Chokwe couldn't be gifted a knife like the one named after them. I'm sure it could be put to a good use if it wasn't such a status symbol that would likely never get used.

OK time for more questions:

What kinda of understanding of metals did your local blacksmith have? Did he do anything that you understood as increasing the carbon content of the blades, even if that's not how he understood it. Was there any sort of tempering process? Did women use different style blades then the men? What was the yearly average income of the average person? When you said You would have to give a knife to the chief, ward counciller and blacksmith, does that mean the blacksmith was a relatively high status in the community? Was he as important or close to as important as the chief and ward counciller?

[sal]

Hi Clovisc,

Thanx for the bump and the information.

Thanx also to Clovisc from Spyderco and our customers. We would have ever had the opportunity to create the Spyderco version were it not for him.

We just returned from the IWA show in Germany. (still in jet lag mode) The Chokwe proto received much attention. We displayed the model with the original sent to me by Clovisc and told the story of Clovisc and the Peace corp.

We are beginning to add a letter of explanation to our models. A copy will go into each box. The letter that came with the first Sage model is an example. A story that explains the model. We would be honored if you would consider writing the "story" to go into the Chokwe box.

I'm surprised that we haven't sent a proto to you yet. Probably too busy with the early show circuit. I'll get one off to you on Monday.

I should also add that, per Clovisc' suggestion, a portion of the sale of each knife will be donated to HIV/Aids related organizations.

sal