S30V - the Best Steel Yet!

[JDEE]

IMO the jury has been out long enough to declare S30V the best steel yet used by Spyderco. No other steel has been able match its combination of edge retention, toughness and corrosion resistance. None of S30V’s predecessors come close.

In saying this I note that S30V is no miracle steel which does everything that a knife maker or user wants – there is no such thing as perfect steel for all applications given the variances in the requirements of these applications. But, for an EDC S30V is close to perfect in the Spyderco range. It is the D2 of stainless steels in that it has that combination of edge retention and toughness sort by makers and users alike. Other steels will have better edge retention and yet others will have better toughness but no steel matches S30V for a combination of edge retention and toughness.
There are other steels stepping forth to take over the mantle of S30V whether or not they succeed is yet to be seen but they will have to be extra good to beat S30V. When Spyderco can produce an EDC better then the ParaMilitary in S30V I’ll buy it but I doubt whether Spyderco will be able to come up with a better steel than S30V for some time.

[DanS]

Do you have the Burgundy Caly Jr.? I know ZDP189 isn't "proven" yet, but so far it seems pretty spectacular. I know it has ridiculous edge retention, and I haven't heard much about chipping either. Something to consider.

[JDEE]

Yes I have had a Calypso Burgundy and yes its edge retention was impressive but this is the first knife produced by Spyderco in this steel - I would want to see it in a knife the size of a ParaM or larger before I made any decisions on its toughness especially. Also the Calypso was only a laminated version I would want to try out a full ZDP189 also. IMV you cannot make any definitive statements on a steel on the basis of one knife - maybe in 2 years time we will have enough data to be able to make an informed decision on its place but is anyone going to produce a 4" folder or a 6" Fixed blade in ZDP189 that is going to be affordable to the average ELU. One of the problems with ZDP189 is its hardness and its ability to chew up belts etc which all adds to the end cost and the type of knives that are going to be available. But, of course similar comments were made about S30V when it first came out.

[DanS]

Like I said... it isn't proven but it is something to consider. I have a feeling that the lamination improves the characteristics of the ZDP. I don't see how a blade that is fully ZDP would be better than the sandwich, but I can see how it might not have the same toughness without a sandwich.

[thombrogan]

S30V is a very nice steel, but there's no need to overhype it. Depending on the manner of cutting, tougher steels can have better edge-retention and harder steels (whether tougher or more brittle) can have better edge retention.

[JD Spydo]

Do you have the Burgundy Caly Jr.? I know ZDP189 isn't "proven" yet, but so far it seems pretty spectacular. I know it has ridiculous edge retention, and I haven't heard much about chipping either. Something to consider.

Now DanS I don't mean to get off on the wrong foot with you but I have to kindly and respectfully disagree with you saying that ZDP-189 is not proven yet. Well I have been carrying my Burgundy Calypso Jr for about 2 months now and I can assure you that blade steel is everything it was touted to be. The edge holding ability far supercedes anything I have included my beloved ATS-55, VG-10, S30V and D-2. Now there is nothing at all wrong with any of the blade steels that I just mentioned but I think ZDP-189 is truly the NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. :cool: :spyder:

[RLR]

Remember:

Anything that is really hard to sharpen is not the best.
Anything that is super hard can be brittle.
Anything that needs precise angles to minimize micro-chipping is not the best.

S30V fits all the above, unfortunately. If you USE a knife, you will dullen it. So you have to sharpen it. Do you want an aggressive edge? A polished edge? That's what makes a super steel - making it yours. I am dictated by S30V's properties, not the other way around which should be the case - I want to master the steel. So, for me, you've got 440C, VG10 and ATS55 at the top. I can make them do what I want, how I want, when I want. They are field serviceable with easily found sharpeners (cheap stones, flat stones, etc...) and keep an excellent edge. Try to polish a mirror edge on S30V; try to reprofile S30V to a thinner edge without chipping. Then, and only then, will you understand...

Off to polish an Opinel, I remain,

RLR

[WORKER#9]

JDEE I agree. I think S30v is the best ALL AROUND steel that spyderco uses. I said all around!!!! As the ZDP is a killer cutter, no doubt. But S30v shows it's superior qaulities in all size knives. From the biggest fixed blades from other manufacturers, to small little DODO's. it's range of uses is unlimited. I find it easy to sharpen. Never had microchipping problems like I have heard about. S30v is an industry standard for a reason!!!!! The steel is about perfect IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Native Justice]

Hmmm, I've used my ZDP Calypso for a while now, dulled it enough that I've had to use the Sharpmaker to tune-it up a bit. Came back very fast and even sharper than out of the box (30 deg. on the white hones corners). Just my 2 cents.

[Titus]

Now DanS I don't mean to get off on the wrong foot with you but I have to kindly and respectfully disagree with you saying that ZDP-189 is not proven yet. Well I have been carrying my Burgundy Calypso Jr for about 2 months now and I can assure you that blade steel is everything it was touted to be. The edge holding ability far supercedes anything I have included my beloved ATS-55, VG-10, S30V and D-2. Now there is nothing at all wrong with any of the blade steels that I just mentioned but I think ZDP-189 is truly the NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. :cool: :spyder:

What about ZDP's strength?

[Outlaw]

[quote="RLR"]Remember:

Anything that is really hard to sharpen is not the best.
Anything that is super hard can be brittle.
Anything that needs precise angles to minimize micro-chipping is not the best.

S30V fits all the above, unfortunately. If you USE a knife, you will dullen it. So you have to sharpen it. Do you want an aggressive edge? A polished edge? That's what makes a super steel - making it yours. I am dictated by S30V's properties, not the other way around which should be the case - I want to master the steel. So, for me, you've got 440C, VG10 and ATS55 at the top. I can make them do what I want, how I want, when I want. They are field serviceable with easily found sharpeners (cheap stones, flat stones, etc...) and keep an excellent edge. Try to polish a mirror edge on S30V]


RLR, well said.
I have a Native, ParaMilitary & Military all in S30V, they just sit in their boxes. Try as I can, I just can't get them sharp enough for my tastes. Don't get me wrong, they are all very sharp but....

My knives in VG-10:
Gray Goddard, NativeIII, ProGrip, CentofanteIII, Calypso Jr., easily beat them all in sharpness. I even have a BM Griptilian in 440C that is sharper than anything I own in S30V. It compares very well with VG-10! :eek:

I have chipped my S30V Native, no problems with my VG-10 NativeIII. No rust, no chipping, edge retention is outstanding. When a VG-10 blade does need touching up, just a few strokes is all that's need to bring the edge back to a scary sharpness. This is an important factor to me.
I know the term "scary sharpness" is over used, but in this case it fits.

Well, that's just my $.02 :)

[WORKER#9]

I will admit, it takes a little more effort to fine tune S30v on the sharpener. BUT it will get scary sharp!! VG10 is easier to get scary sharp, no doubt. But after working with both personally I can get them very close. I do know that the sharpest knife tested at blade show was ED's vg10 persian that he sharpened on the sharpmaker. It was the sharpest at the show!!! I would like to see a comparison of the two steels in identical blades. Then see which one can be brought to sharpness better! But S30v HOLDS an edge longer, and I just love this steel :D !!!. I think the native was made in both steel's. I might have to start in informal test!

Worker

[Native Justice]

What about ZDP's strength?

I've hit box staples unintentionally and haven't had any chips yet. :D Haven't actually tried to chip the edge yet .... and not sure I want to, though it be interesting to know how long it would take to restore the edge. Right now though doesn't seem any different than the ATS-55 or S30V I've worked with ...

[WORKER#9]

What about ZDP's strength?

I have used may Caly Jr ZDP as a major everyday cutter. I have spared it no task, despite it's possible future collector's value. what makes this knife so great is that Spyderco brought exotic steel to the masses for a more than fair price. I am grateful for that. When I say I have used it I mean USED it!! I have run inside to find it when I had a cutting choir and my Lil Temp was in my pocket. Just had to us it :D . I have cut tons of cardboard, wood, plastic. used it do anything and everything!! This steel is a very thin grind on the caly, you must also keep in mind. I have yet to find a weekness in strength, It seems to just keep cutting, I have had no chips. I am impressed, very impressed. Zdp seems very durable, more so than I imagined!!

Worker

[JDEE]

Please note I said S30V was the best steel used by Spyderco - there are other steels not used by Spyderco that are better than S30V. In relation to ZDP189 it still has to be proven it may well prove itself to be better than S30V but until such time as we have a knife the size of the ParaM or larger in solid ZDP189 we wont know how good this steel is and whether it is tough enough to stand up to the rigours of long term use. You could argue that a steel that has to be laminated to bring out its best has an inherant weakness this is not necessarily the case given VG10 laminates. I'm not prepared to pass judgement on a steel that is in a laminate form and only in one blade (again I am talking Spyderco only) when we have a range of ZDP189 blades to play with in laminate and full we will then be able to pass judgement IMV.

[Axlis]

I love S30v! Its got this particular look and feel to it that I am just attracted to, for lack of a better word! I like Zdp too, but I want to see it solid before I make any judgements on a definite fave!

[jimbo@stn24]

I seem to recall an individual that tested a Native (C41) in S30V against another Native (C78) in VG-10, both were plain edge and I believe the fellow was an Aussie. His findings may have been posted in the Spyderco section of Blade Forums but I am not sure.

If memory serves, initially the VG-10 out performed the S30V to the point he was somewhat dissapointed in the CPM offering. Later on, he worked some with the S30V and was getting more and more performance out of it, so much so that he repeated his testing and discovered the CPM S30V was performing abit better than the VG-10.

At any rate, my own informal cutting test with absorbant matting shows VG-10 to be a very high performance steel and is quite impressive in it's own right. I can see more testing (with other steels as well) will certainly be required and will be fun to fool with and learn from. Thanks to Spyderco and others there are numerous great, high performance cutlery steels on the market today.

[JDEE]

I seem to recall an individual that tested a Native (C41) in S30V against another Native (C78) in VG-10, both were plain edge and I believe the fellow was an Aussie. His findings may have been posted in the Spyderco section of Blade Forums but I am not sure.

Too true. In edge retention I have found that VG10 is not far behind S30V but I don't see that it has the toughness of S30V. Don't get me wrong I think VG10 is a beautiful steel and deserves to be up there 2nd to VG10 and as matter of fact have just ordered Falkniven WM1 in that steel. It is a pity that Spyderco could not make some of their larger knives in VG10 EG the ParaMilitary I am sure they would be very popular.

[Slvgx]

Honestly, I don't really see a huge difference. Now, I will push for "better" steels like S30V just to make my mind happy. I can tell the difference to an extent, but I'm happy with S30V and VG-10 among others. I've yet to try ZDP-189, waiting on the blue Delica for that.

My first knife with S30V was a Paramilitary I bought last fall. I was under the impression that the knife was 100% new, and I bought it on eBay, but I suspect it was not new. It was rather dull, and I thought that was just how S30V was, I was a newbie back then. I had read how Spyderco is the best of the best when getting things out of the box, and since it was not insanely sharp I just thought S30V sucked. I ended up selling the PMillie because the 14mm hump too up too much space in my pocket and the corner of the tang would take little bites on my hand when reaching into the pocket. Great knife in all other respects. Anyways, the point was, the knife was not sharp, and I believe it was used prior to me getting it. I've been carrying a S30V Native for some time now, and I definitely understand why people love it so much.

[dialex]

S30V is a great steel, no doubt about it. It may, or it may be not, the best choice for a knife. It all depends on what you are expecting from that knife. But what really matters is that the quest for the ultimate steel indulges us with new and new toys to fondle :D