Knife Laws

[CopilotATS-55]

massachusetts has very bad laws including that if u are at a school event they have the pretence that your only going to use it badly :eek: :spyder:

[greencobra]

The Mass General Law dictates that no weapons (gun or knife) can be carried to within 500 ft of school property, never mind on the grounds or to an event. This law was written well before you were born.

And my young friend, spend more time in school and learn how to spell Massachusetts. :D

[Zwaplat]

I had to read that 'sentence' five times before I understood it. It's something I hate doing. And we know that knife laws are ridiculous almost everywhere.

[JD Spydo]

You know I am hearing that we are a "Free Nation". I am hearing the continual drum beat of how Free we are here in this Nation. I do agree that this is comparitively is one of the nicer places in the world to live. No argument there. But it is not freedom when you are restricted with your uses of a gun or a knife where self defense and life preservation are concerned. The Second Amendment of our Constitution clearly says that these rights shall not be infringed period. I'm sorry but it is very apparent to me that our constitutional rights have been eviscerated, twisted, perverted and altered to where the Constitution for the most part is "null & void". I should be able to carry a pocket knife anywhere in Public.

The Powers that Be know that honest decent citizens don't commit crimes with their guns & knives. The only thing that makes any sense out of our current system is that they have given the lawyers total autonomy and complete control to where they have a perpetual "money mill" interpreting a perverted set of laws in a perverted legal system. Try doing anything in the legal arena without a lawyer. You will soon find out how perverted it is. I am not saying the situation is hopeless. But we are running out of time. People need to wake up. Because we are getting closer and closer to an autocratic Police State in which only corrupt government and corrupt lawyers will win.

[Mariner]

Hey JD, why don't you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think? :D :D :D

I abhor any law that sets me up to be a victim. There is no shortage of these laws and, like you, I'm certain that more are on the way. The ball is rolling and it's gaining momentum .

For example, the Government of Canada has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on a gun registry up here, and we citizens are now legally required to register our hunting rifles and shotguns. A permit is now legally required to purchase ammunition for any firearm. This huge financial investment is supposed to reduce crime involving firearms. What a crock :mad: . Can't you just see the criminals lining-up to register theirs? When firearm ownership is eventually prohibited (and I'm convinced that this will eventually occur in this country where there is no right to bear arms enshrined in a Constitution), only those law-abiding citizens who regsitered their long guns will receive written direction from government to surrender them for destruction. Might as well serve us up on a platter! In the iterim, if one of my long guns gets stolen, at least the LEOs will be able to temporarily return it to its rightful owner. I wonder when all knives will be required to bear a serial number.

[CopilotATS-55]

im just saying the goverment thinks were only going to kill someone with them
also sorry GC about spelling i had to fix something

[greencobra]

JD, I think for an adult to carry a pocket knife on or near school grounds would be no problem. A pocket knife JD, not an Ayoob. I think the law was written so kids won't be walking around the halls with a Chinook or K Bar. I don't think there's a need for a kid to be with a knife at a school function. As for weapons within 500 ft, well thats there so no one can walk up and slip a weapon to a student. This law is silly but you can just add on more charges if it happens. The times are changing, I'm not defending the law, but I have to go with it. Events like Columbine get everyone on edge so law makers go over the top.

[greencobra]

im just saying the goverment thinks were only going to kill someone with them
also sorry GC about spelling i had to fix something

Just teasing you on the spelling my friend. :)

It's not the government CoPilot, it's the private citizen who forces the government to make these laws. It's the parents with school age kids who want their kids protected while at school. When I went to school, you never heard of someone getting killed for a pair of sneakers or a jacket, you had a problem, you fought with fists not knives and guns. Now it's not uncommon to hear of a kid being killed in school during the course of the year in any big city. When they ban knives and you have to go through a metal detector to get to class, it's all knives, not just big 'uns. ****, in my day, I remember playing in the back of math class with butterfly knives. When the teacher heard the sound, you were just asked to put it away. Now you'd be arrested.

[CopilotATS-55]

i know at least 1 other guy(a good friend) who respects the laws but thinks their a tad overprotectice but only a tad i would never use knives stupidly neither would he :) :spyder:

[ghostrider]

JD, I think for an adult to carry a pocket knife on or near school grounds would be no problem. A pocket knife JD, not an Ayoob. I think the law was written so kids won't be walking around the halls with a Chinook or K Bar. I don't think there's a need for a kid to be with a knife at a school function. As for weapons within 500 ft, well thats there so no one can walk up and slip a weapon to a student. This law is silly but you can just add on more charges if it happens. The times are changing, I'm not defending the law, but I have to go with it. Events like Columbine get everyone on edge so law makers go over the top.

I will take exception with this. Not necessarily with you green cobra, but with the idea that these laws are in place to stop crime. They don’t, if anything, they perpetuate it by making it easier for the actual lawbreakers to operate by taking the means of force away from those who would use it to resist their attackers, and therefore providing thier attackers with a "target rich" and opposition free environment. You mention Columbine, and that is a great example of how weapons restrictions placed people at risk and got them killed. Because the school was a “gun free” zone, the boys who did that killing were insured there would be nobody to stand against them because is was against the law to have the means to do so within a certain distance of the school. That law got people killed.

You do state that you don’t think a kid has a “need” for a knife at a school function. Sadly, the term “need” is often utilized as a precursor to confiscate rights from the people (They may well use the same justification to take your Spydercos some day). Just because you don’t see a “need” for it, doesn’t mean their isn’t one, or that it shouldn’t be allowed. Furthermore, since when should we have to justify exercising a God given right with “need”? The answer is “When we are no longer free”. I, personally, find it offensive that someone would even ask such a question, and immediately suspect anyone who would ask it., since it is truly NBBM as long as I don’t use it to violate the rights of others. As for uses of a pocket knife at school, I carried my SAK throughout high school, and not only did I use it often, but many a fellow students would ask to borrow it from time to time. Furthermore, if schools are so dangerous that metal detectors are in place, then I would think it prudent that they are proof that there is sufficient danger to warrant the tools necessary to defend oneself against those who represent a clear and/or present danger at school.

You also bring up another reasoning (however inadvertently or not) that are used to brainwash society into thinking that we need such laws. That is the idea that we can use such laws to “further” punish someone who has committed a crime through use of another law banning a simple inanimate object. That just sounds so much like “We won’t properly punish the thug for the crime he committed, so we’re going to use it as an excuse to pass a law which further infringes your rights as a law abiding citizen.”

[Jim Malone]

Zwaplat, our friend Copilot is a minor (he is only 14), he is our Benjamin on the forum. Strange law! Do you get a map with coloured dots on it, to avoid breaking the law? So if you wan't to go somewhere, you have to map out the trip before leaving to swere thru the dotted map!? :eek:

[JD Spydo]

NOW Greencobra you know we are friends. So I mean this with all due respect So this is not aimed at you personally. But this dis-information about the people pressuring the politicians to make draconian laws is just not accurate. How many citizens had anything to do with that Patriot Act? Right! none what so ever. How many citizens had anything to do with the creation of abominable government agencies like FEMA? Right again!! none what so ever

What you are seeing is a lot of these events used as an excuse by the dark, corrupt government to place one more draconian law to further their tyrannical control. They seize the opportunity to work on people's emotions and lack of education as an excuse to impose more unnecessary laws. Laws do not prevent anything.

Oh!! by the way. It is not wrong, immoral or improper for me to carry an Ayoob anywhere I choose to carry it. There are many, many more people killed with cars than there are with guns/knives. But you don't see any legislation to do away with 400 horsepower cars, Jaguar V-12s, Corvettes with enough power to operate 4 cars and a farm tractor. Not to mention these Cell Phone Addicts that kill more people than drunk drivers. But with rights come responsibility. I don't care if anyone wants to own such a car. But if he/she goes out on I-70 and does 195 miles an hour and kills a carload of people then they have to answer for it. That's how it is with anything.

All the laws in the world would not have stopped Columbine. Nor would a bunch of draconian laws stopped the idiot in Kileen Texas a few years back from going into a restuarant and killing people at random. On top of everything else these laws are not made for our safety they are made to hinder us, control us and impede us from defending ourselves in a righteous manor and castrating our liberties that GOD intended for us to have. We need criminal control, not gun/knife control. Unfortunately we now have a bastian of criminals running the country and their overall goal is to make us into subserviant wage slaves and to keep us gagged, bound and powerless. IT's like an old 60s radical once said: "Once they got to live by the laws that they make>>then they will quit making them". You're a good, decent man Sir but just think for a minute. Just when was the last time that this Godless Government ever done anything for any of us except raise our taxes and invoke more tyranny.

[Vincent]

I think it has to do with how Sensative the American Public is. You pull out a Knife in Wendys people will push down tables, shooting back and away from you and that deadly knife.

Thogh go to Europe, people wont and a knife is not as bad,

Problem in America is People dont trust other people, Unless you are a Doctor.

Dahm Network TV

[CopilotATS-55]

thanks all for letting me express my felling

[Gerard Breuker]

I am afraid it isn't much better in Europe.
There seems to be a general conspiracy of fear as people are being intimidated by everything. It isn't just weapons they are afraid of it is living in general. They are afraid of global heating, air pollution, food poisoning, cell phone radiation, terrorism, phony diseases and many other things. Then they are led to believe they should demand safety and security which leads to all kinds of absurd legislation by politicians to show decisiveness. Real sheep are better of as they are ignorant in stead of afraid.
If you want to be free you are or have to become a criminal. As a criminal you don't have to abide the law and there are lots of excuses already made up for you.

[greencobra]

I think it has to do with how Sensative the American Public is. You pull out a Knife in Wendys people will push down tables, shooting back and away from you and that deadly knife.

Thogh go to Europe, people wont and a knife is not as bad,

Problem in America is People dont trust other people, Unless you are a Doctor.

Dahm Network TV

Vinny has it. We come from big cities and see the reaction every day. I do want to say I don't agree with it but I have to live with it, period. I won't put in jepardy what rights I have to prove a point.

The Patriot Act JD, well...everyone was for it after 9/11. But how quickly we forget after the fact. FEMA, different kettle of fish, nothing to do what we're talking about.

Jim, no we don't follow a colored dotted map to get around. The law doesn't change my lifestyle either. I always carry a knife and when I do carry a firearm I don't avoid taboo locations. LOL....It's common sense, I certainly wouldn't flaunt it and had no problems in 35 yrs of having a concealed carry permit. If you can believe it, I have more rights when it comes to concealed carry than a lot of other podunc states. When I lived in Co. for instance, no one except LEO's and armed security personnel had CC permits. The theory was, you can carry out in the open, why do you need a CCP? Yeah, go to the local Piggely Wiggely with a gun strapped to your hip, see how far you get. They also had a catch 22....pay a non-refundable application fee of, I think $250, to apply for the permit. No sheriff would sign his name to it or wanted to be the first.

This is a touchy subject. I'm a hunter, firearm and knife lover and the fact is gentlemen, sometimes I need to bend to keep what rights I have. Sad but true. If that means a 14 yo can't carry a Yojimbo to the school dance, so be it. And I still feel it's people pressue that sways politicians to enact the strange laws we have. And guys, I just don't pay lip service, I donate money to the gun lobby, show up for house hearings, support politicians who support what rights I have left. I trying to do all the right things.

[Vincent]

Another Possible reason.

Countries change when they see war on the home land. Such as actually having war taking place were they live. America has not had that in the past 100 years. if ever, but idk. This is a possibility people take their security as a Given.

People change when their own people die in front of them, America has not had this, so the average person, including myself does not even see a dead body untill their 20-30s when gradparents die.

I mean 9/11 was not the same as a German invasion into Belgium and then France.

Big difference.

[ghostrider]

Well greencobra, I gotta say that I have always enjoyed your commentary on this forum, and truly did miss you when you took a temporary absence when starting you new job (which I pray is going well), but if I didn’t “stand up” and say something as my sig suggests, then I’d be a hypocrite.

The Patriot Act JD, well...everyone was for it after 9/11.

Wrong. Only the sheeple were for it. Those who knew that our Constitution, and therefore our country, are in jeopardy were not for it. We knew that it wasn’t a lack of law than made us vulnerable, but the erosion of not only our rights, but the American spirit in general. That attitude (the eroded American spirit) hasn’t changed since 9/11. We are still only to willing to concede that the answer to the question “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?” is yes. Sad really, for the remainder of that quote goes on to say “Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take]This is a touchy subject. I'm a hunter, firearm and knife lover and the fact is gentlemen, sometimes I need to bend to keep what rights I have. Sad but true. If that means a 14 yo can't carry a Yojimbo to the school dance, so be it. And I still feel it's people pressue that sways politicians to enact the strange laws we have. And guys, I just don't pay lip service, I donate money to the gun lobby, show up for house hearings, support politicians who support what rights I have left. I trying to do all the right things.[/QUOTE]
Most modern, anti-Second Amendment politicians are quick to point out that they support the Second Amendment, and the rights of sportsmen, and hunter’s. While I don’t doubt that you’re a “hunter, firearm and knife lover”, (based on your statements) you are anti-Second Amendment, and therefore anti-Constitution. Your willingness to restrict JD from carrying an Ayoob to school, or for that matter a 14 yo from carrying a Yojimbo (which are both clear violations of the Constitution, and have nothing to do with safety), indicate such. Donating to the gun lobby, and going to meetings doesn’t change that. Furthermore, what you don’t seem to understand is that by supporting such unConstitutional legislation, you only make society more dangerous, and pave the way for your rights as a “hunter, firearm and knife lover” to be further eroded. Your telling them its okay to take your rights, and at the same time making it safer for criminals. If you aren’t willing to stand up for the rights of those you don’t agree with, then don’t expect to be able to keep the ones you cherish. That is how “liberty dies”.

[smcfalls13]

While this post will not be nearly as eloquent and well thought out like the rest of yours, I will say this. I agree with much of what is being said here, and here is my take.

I have the right to bear arms. If history serves me correctly(I could be wrong), that amendment was enacted for one purpose, and that was to provide the citizens of this country the power to resist an oppressive and tyrannical government. The writers of the Constitution guaranteed us the right to bear weapons of all kinds(the term arms was never defined) just in case centuries down the road, we were left with another totalitarian government. We were given the right to arm ourselves, and overthrow by force(if all other methods failed) that oppressive government.

That being said, we are almost being denied our consitutional rights. I say almost, because we are being limited. While I would love to carry an automatic knife, and a 12" bowie, I am restricted from doing so because of certain laws. Whether those laws are legal or not, I'm not sure. We still have the right to bear arms, but we are severely limited, in some cases, of what we may have. Therefore noone is telling me I cannot have the weapon, only that I cannot have this particular weapon.

It's a loophole that will likely be exploited over and over again, until the loophole closes like a noose around our necks. Legislators will keep limiting what we are allowed to have until we are left with nothing. Then, when our constitutional right has finally been revoked, it will be too late to do anything about it.

Looking back on this post, I apologize. It's more of a rant, than a productive post, and I really don't have a point. I guess I'm just being a conspiracy theorist. Big brother's gonna take my knives.

My point is, I think its ridiculous to limit certain weapons. Once one is "controlled" and no longer "dangerous," there will always be another to focus on. Starting with auto knives, moving to gravity knives, one handed opening knives are already illegal in some states, my point is, when will it stop? When anything metal and sharp is illegal?

Any suggestions on how to prevent this? Knife rights are not exactly a high priority during election years.

[ghostrider]

Scott,
Let me clarify some of this for you.

That being said, we are almost being denied our constitutional rights. I say almost, because we are being limited. While I would love to carry an automatic knife, and a 12" bowie, I am restricted from doing so because of certain laws. Whether those laws are legal or not, I'm not sure. We still have the right to bear arms, but we are severely limited, in some cases, of what we may have. Therefore no one is telling me I cannot have the weapon, only that I cannot have this particular weapon.

We are not “almost being denied our constitutional rights”. We are being denied our constitutional rights. While it’s true that we do “still have the right to bear arms”, that right has been infringed, which is in direct violation of the Constitution. If you are “restricted from doing so because of certain laws.”, then that is an infringement. You have a right to do so (i.e. Carry a 12” bowie) however, since doing so will probably land you in jail, or at least cause you to be detained, and your knife confiscated, it is an infringement. It is an infringement because being detained or jailed is a loss of liberty, and confiscation is a violation of your private property. Any limits placed upon what you can and cannot chose as a weapon is an infringement. The U.S. Constitution clearly states that this right is not to be infringed. Furthermore, the Constitution provides no such authority to place any such limits on us.

BTW, FYI, any and all such laws are unlawful. They violate the U.S. Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, and therefore supersedes any and all laws to the contrary.

It's a loophole that will likely be exploited over and over again, until the loophole closes like a noose around our necks. Legislators will keep limiting what we are allowed to have until we are left with nothing. Then, when our constitutional right has finally been revoked, it will be too late to do anything about it.

There is no such loophole in the constitution. It is pure violation, perpetuated by the Amerikan peoples desire to limit the rights of their fellow man.

You ask “when will it stop”. Well Scott, JD :spyder: and I have disagreed on this one. He thinks something can be done. I subscribe to the theory prescribed by some of the current freedom loving authors:
There are four boxes in this order:

1. The soap box
2. The ballot box
3. The jury box
4. The cartridge box

JD has inferred that we are at number 1. I disagree because when I listen to my fellow countrymen, more often than not I hear how they think it’s okay to trade rights for a false sense of safety, or an acceptance of tyrannical violations of the Constitution as simply “loopholes”. Because of such disheartening signs, I think we are somewhere between numbers three and four. I take this stance because the politicians who commit such atrocities continue to be voted back into office (the ballot box), and most people don’t even know enough about jury responsibilities to make a difference there (if they don‘t know the Constitution, they can‘t make an informed decision).