SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[Evil D]

I recently came across one of the heaviest boxes I've seen that wasn't one of those watermelon/pumpkin gaylord boxes you see in stores, so of course I have to cut it up.






My Chief made short work of it, it barely felt heavier than a typical double wall box.






Now the wild part is, I actually CAN'T cut this with my Military 2, no matter how hard I push it's just wedged in there like I'm trying to cut through a hard wood branch. I cut at the same place at the same angle as the Chief.




Now before anyone says it, I know I can turn the knife 45 degrees and make this cut much easier, but I didn't have to do that with the Chief, you can see in those pics I made the same squared up cuts.

I'm no Eddie Hall but I'm not a weakling either, I'm really surprised by this. The Chief does have a thinner blade grind but not drastically different, so I'm not sure how much of this can be credited to serrations vs plain edge or if the Chief is really just that much slicier. I do also have a plain edge 4V Chief that I plan on getting out to see if it cuts any better.

I just tried again and I was able slice off a smaller piece if I hold the knife at an angle and really lean into it, but again this wasn't necessary with the Chief, you can even see by the glue marks on the Chief blade that I did more push cutting than slicing.

Strange results. I have no issues breaking down similar boxes with either PE or SE, going with or against the grain.

You know those thick cardboard bins 3 corrugated layers deep they ship pumpkins in? Broke down a few of those today with my Chief that we had in our back lot from a recent pumpkin carving competition.





Still scrape shaves despite using a pretty coarse finish and dulling it some since sharpening it.

That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

[vivi]

I recently came across one of the heaviest boxes I've seen that wasn't one of those watermelon/pumpkin gaylord boxes you see in stores, so of course I have to cut it up.






My Chief made short work of it, it barely felt heavier than a typical double wall box.






Now the wild part is, I actually CAN'T cut this with my Military 2, no matter how hard I push it's just wedged in there like I'm trying to cut through a hard wood branch. I cut at the same place at the same angle as the Chief.




Now before anyone says it, I know I can turn the knife 45 degrees and make this cut much easier, but I didn't have to do that with the Chief, you can see in those pics I made the same squared up cuts.

I'm no Eddie Hall but I'm not a weakling either, I'm really surprised by this. The Chief does have a thinner blade grind but not drastically different, so I'm not sure how much of this can be credited to serrations vs plain edge or if the Chief is really just that much slicier. I do also have a plain edge 4V Chief that I plan on getting out to see if it cuts any better.

I just tried again and I was able slice off a smaller piece if I hold the knife at an angle and really lean into it, but again this wasn't necessary with the Chief, you can even see by the glue marks on the Chief blade that I did more push cutting than slicing.

Strange results. I have no issues breaking down similar boxes with either PE or SE, going with or against the grain.

You know those thick cardboard bins 3 corrugated layers deep they ship pumpkins in? Broke down a few of those today with my Chief that we had in our back lot from a recent pumpkin carving competition.





Still scrape shaves despite using a pretty coarse finish and dulling it some since sharpening it.

That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

Edge geometry makes a big difference here, but I'd think any of the knives you're trying should be able to make the cut.

When cutting thick cardboard like this I choke up on the choil for better leverage and initiate the cut with a slicing motion, then try to hold a push cut once the slice is going.

Another thing you can try is using the thinner part closer to the tip.

Now I want to find some super thick cardboard to try slicing with my 15V Millie

[Evil D]

I recently came across one of the heaviest boxes I've seen that wasn't one of those watermelon/pumpkin gaylord boxes you see in stores, so of course I have to cut it up.






My Chief made short work of it, it barely felt heavier than a typical double wall box.






Now the wild part is, I actually CAN'T cut this with my Military 2, no matter how hard I push it's just wedged in there like I'm trying to cut through a hard wood branch. I cut at the same place at the same angle as the Chief.




Now before anyone says it, I know I can turn the knife 45 degrees and make this cut much easier, but I didn't have to do that with the Chief, you can see in those pics I made the same squared up cuts.

I'm no Eddie Hall but I'm not a weakling either, I'm really surprised by this. The Chief does have a thinner blade grind but not drastically different, so I'm not sure how much of this can be credited to serrations vs plain edge or if the Chief is really just that much slicier. I do also have a plain edge 4V Chief that I plan on getting out to see if it cuts any better.

I just tried again and I was able slice off a smaller piece if I hold the knife at an angle and really lean into it, but again this wasn't necessary with the Chief, you can even see by the glue marks on the Chief blade that I did more push cutting than slicing.

Strange results. I have no issues breaking down similar boxes with either PE or SE, going with or against the grain.

You know those thick cardboard bins 3 corrugated layers deep they ship pumpkins in? Broke down a few of those today with my Chief that we had in our back lot from a recent pumpkin carving competition.





Still scrape shaves despite using a pretty coarse finish and dulling it some since sharpening it.

That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

Edge geometry makes a big difference here, but I'd think any of the knives you're trying should be able to make the cut.

When cutting thick cardboard like this I choke up on the choil for better leverage and initiate the cut with a slicing motion, then try to hold a push cut once the slice is going.

Another thing you can try is using the thinner part closer to the tip.

Now I want to find some super thick cardboard to try slicing with my 15V Millie

Yeah I know a lot of ways to make it work, I'm just trying to make it as equal a comparison to the Chief cuts as I can.

[Wartstein]

@vivi no secret that I am biased towards SE, but as I said in my previous post:

I don´t know if the advantage of SE (which at least I subjectively perceive!) comes from the teeth themselves or from the steep (chisel) grind, resp. how much of each contributes here.

I know that you often give your PE folders a pretty acute inclusive edge angle that matches the edge angle of an SE chisel grind: Would be interesting to compare SE and PE with about the same inclusive angle (SE chisel, PE V-grind) in this cardboard test...

[Wartstein]

...
That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

Please keep us posted!
I´d be very interested in the results (SE Chief vs PE chief. I figure though the PE will always have a disadvantage when it comes to acuteness of the inclusive edge angle, unless you sharpen it to about 10 per side? )

[Wartstein]

I played with coarse edges way back when a knife called the Grayman Satu first came out, which was a ridiculous overbuilt tank of a knife, and Grayman were known for putting quick and dirty edges on their knives in very coarse edges. I also played around with coarse on one side and fine on the other and also did this on serrations. I also tried course edges and then micro beveling with very high grit stones (16k Shapton glass stone).

I settled into favoring the 400-600 grit range, and then more because of convenience I use an 800ish grit edge more often than anything else because I believe that's about what the Sharpmaker brown rods are.

I have nothing against anything lower, I just like a mix of being able to push cut and slice aggressively. I do prefer coarse edges in the kitchen though, most of my kitchen knives get sharpened on CBN rods and that's it.

*Also want to add, Cliff Stamp was a big inspiration for all this too. He has a video where he sharpens on (I think) a BBQ grill cleaning brick which was something like 30 grit or something super crazy, and he was able to push cut newspaper with that edge. I'm nowhere near as good at sharpening as Cliff was.

**Also need to give Murray Carter some credit here too, he's sharpened on a cinder block and stropped on newspaper and got a shaving edge.

Just to be clear: I did not mean to imply something like that Vivi actually "invented" the low grit edge, of course I know that many folks here and elsewhere play around with a lot of finishes!

"Vivi edge" just became a common term for it around here some time ago, and I do give him credit for making it popular again, mostly with this viewtopic.php?p=1368196#p1368196 thread.

It made me try and really appreciate very coarse PE edges anyway - though unlike Vivi himself I still prefer SE.

[vivi]

@vivi no secret that I am biased towards SE, but as I said in my previous post:

I don´t know if the advantage of SE (which at least I subjectively perceive!) comes from the teeth themselves or from the steep (chisel) grind, resp. how much of each contributes here.

I know that you often give your PE folders a pretty acute inclusive edge angle that matches the edge angle of an SE chisel grind: Would be interesting to compare SE and PE with about the same inclusive angle (SE chisel, PE V-grind) in this cardboard test...

the thinner edge geometry is the main benefit stock SE has over stock PE in my experience.

the teeth are nice for certain materials like rope and plastic pallet straps, but I think the thinner geometry of factory SE knives is the main thing contributing to their impressive cutting ability.

I think a large part of the reason why I'm ambivalent towards SE is understanding I can get the majority of the benefits of SE in a PE knife by tweaking geometry and edge finish.

In fact I may go make a topic on edge geometry. I'm perpetually confused both by knife companies and end line users having no issues running 15 degree inckusive edges on serrated knives, but then running something like a 40 degree inclusive edge on their plain edged knives.

[Evil D]

Wanted to reiterate, not all boxes are created equally.

This is a heavy double wall box folded over into 4 layers, cut it with no problem.



Same box folded over again to make 6 layers, this took a lot of force but it made a clean cut.



I'm telling you guys this other box is on another level. I just stood the board up on my desk and put my whole body weight into the cut and there's just no way. I stopped when the inside of my wrist started hurting.



Even if we all agree that I'm just a weakling, I'm still the same guy that cut the same board with that Chief, it's not like I was stronger when I used the Chief lol. There's clearly a huge difference in either the blade grind or maybe the way the serrations are thinner at the apex or all of it combined. Since this was mostly a push cut I'm not convinced that this was all in favor of serrations either.

This Military is also still extremely sharp, I can't tell a difference in the edge after making those cuts.

I only have one flap/panel of this box, if I had known it was so different I would have kept more of it but I have enough that I can do a lot of cuts on it if I'm conservative with it.

[Evil D]

...
That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

Please keep us posted!
I´d be very interested in the results (SE Chief vs PE chief. I figure though the PE will always have a disadvantage when it comes to acuteness of the inclusive edge angle, unless you sharpen it to about 10 per side? )

Even if the actual apex is the same angle (as if I micro bevel both edges on 30 or 40 slots) the serrations will still be far thinner behind the very apex itself and unless the blade grind is much thicker like some of the old Salts were, this will always be an advantage unless you reprofile your PE to be equally thin. The convex edge on my Bodacious is somewhere between these two examples, not as thin as serrations but far thinner than factory ground PE blades.

[vivi]

so why not reprofile all your PE knives to be as thin as your SE knives if the SE knives aren't taking damage?

[Evil D]

I played with coarse edges way back when a knife called the Grayman Satu first came out, which was a ridiculous overbuilt tank of a knife, and Grayman were known for putting quick and dirty edges on their knives in very coarse edges. I also played around with coarse on one side and fine on the other and also did this on serrations. I also tried course edges and then micro beveling with very high grit stones (16k Shapton glass stone).

I settled into favoring the 400-600 grit range, and then more because of convenience I use an 800ish grit edge more often than anything else because I believe that's about what the Sharpmaker brown rods are.

I have nothing against anything lower, I just like a mix of being able to push cut and slice aggressively. I do prefer coarse edges in the kitchen though, most of my kitchen knives get sharpened on CBN rods and that's it.

*Also want to add, Cliff Stamp was a big inspiration for all this too. He has a video where he sharpens on (I think) a BBQ grill cleaning brick which was something like 30 grit or something super crazy, and he was able to push cut newspaper with that edge. I'm nowhere near as good at sharpening as Cliff was.

**Also need to give Murray Carter some credit here too, he's sharpened on a cinder block and stropped on newspaper and got a shaving edge.

Just to be clear: I did not mean to imply something like that Vivi actually "invented" the low grit edge, of course I know that many folks here and elsewhere play around with a lot of finishes!

"Vivi edge" just became a common term for it around here some time ago, and I do give him credit for making it popular again, mostly with this viewtopic.php?p=1368196#p1368196 thread.

It made me try and really appreciate very coarse PE edges anyway - though unlike Vivi himself I still prefer SE.

Oh I wasn't trying to say he didn't or whatever, was just saying that was my experience with low grit edges and where I got the idea from. I didn't explore the advantages edge retention and such like Vivi has either, I just liked it for cutting aggression.

[Evil D]

so why not reprofile all your PE knives to be as thin as your SE knives if the SE knives aren't taking damage?

I don't disagree

[cabfrank]

I guess if I get a Military 2 I'll get SE, but I already knew I would.

[JSumm]

I recently came across one of the heaviest boxes I've seen that wasn't one of those watermelon/pumpkin gaylord boxes you see in stores, so of course I have to cut it up.






My Chief made short work of it, it barely felt heavier than a typical double wall box.






Now the wild part is, I actually CAN'T cut this with my Military 2, no matter how hard I push it's just wedged in there like I'm trying to cut through a hard wood branch. I cut at the same place at the same angle as the Chief.




Now before anyone says it, I know I can turn the knife 45 degrees and make this cut much easier, but I didn't have to do that with the Chief, you can see in those pics I made the same squared up cuts.

I'm no Eddie Hall but I'm not a weakling either, I'm really surprised by this. The Chief does have a thinner blade grind but not drastically different, so I'm not sure how much of this can be credited to serrations vs plain edge or if the Chief is really just that much slicier. I do also have a plain edge 4V Chief that I plan on getting out to see if it cuts any better.

I just tried again and I was able slice off a smaller piece if I hold the knife at an angle and really lean into it, but again this wasn't necessary with the Chief, you can even see by the glue marks on the Chief blade that I did more push cutting than slicing.

Strange results. I have no issues breaking down similar boxes with either PE or SE, going with or against the grain.

You know those thick cardboard bins 3 corrugated layers deep they ship pumpkins in? Broke down a few of those today with my Chief that we had in our back lot from a recent pumpkin carving competition.





Still scrape shaves despite using a pretty coarse finish and dulling it some since sharpening it.

That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

Can you throw your SE Military 2 into the equation as well as the PE Chief? That would be interesting if it would go.

I noticed something years ago with Wharncliffes when it comes to cutting cardboard. They seemed to bind faster when the edge was 90 degrees to the cut. When I angled it back a bit, maybe around 45 degrees, it would cut great. (Now, I am not talking about the angle left to right cutting with the internals of the cardboard. Vivi shared that technique knowledge with me a while back and it is eye opening.) I think there is more slicing when the knife is angled down. A knife with belly has this to a degree where a wharncliffe does not, so you have to angle it manually. Serrations have that angle built in all over. Another comparison for what I am poorly trying to say would be the blade shape of a guillotine. They have that blade coming down at 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees to the cut.

Well this is fun! Thanks for sharing.

[Evil D]

I recently came across one of the heaviest boxes I've seen that wasn't one of those watermelon/pumpkin gaylord boxes you see in stores, so of course I have to cut it up.






My Chief made short work of it, it barely felt heavier than a typical double wall box.






Now the wild part is, I actually CAN'T cut this with my Military 2, no matter how hard I push it's just wedged in there like I'm trying to cut through a hard wood branch. I cut at the same place at the same angle as the Chief.




Now before anyone says it, I know I can turn the knife 45 degrees and make this cut much easier, but I didn't have to do that with the Chief, you can see in those pics I made the same squared up cuts.

I'm no Eddie Hall but I'm not a weakling either, I'm really surprised by this. The Chief does have a thinner blade grind but not drastically different, so I'm not sure how much of this can be credited to serrations vs plain edge or if the Chief is really just that much slicier. I do also have a plain edge 4V Chief that I plan on getting out to see if it cuts any better.

I just tried again and I was able slice off a smaller piece if I hold the knife at an angle and really lean into it, but again this wasn't necessary with the Chief, you can even see by the glue marks on the Chief blade that I did more push cutting than slicing.

Strange results. I have no issues breaking down similar boxes with either PE or SE, going with or against the grain.

You know those thick cardboard bins 3 corrugated layers deep they ship pumpkins in? Broke down a few of those today with my Chief that we had in our back lot from a recent pumpkin carving competition.





Still scrape shaves despite using a pretty coarse finish and dulling it some since sharpening it.

That's why I want to get my PE Chief out for comparison. Maybe it's the higher factory edge bevel on the Military? It's somewhere between 15 and 20 per side, it micro bevels on the 40 slots. I've reprofiled my 4V Chief too.

Can you throw your SE Military 2 into the equation as well as the PE Chief? That would be interesting if it would go.

I noticed something years ago with Wharncliffes when it comes to cutting cardboard. They seemed to bind faster when the edge was 90 degrees to the cut. When I angled it back a bit, maybe around 45 degrees, it would cut great. (Now, I am not talking about the angle left to right cutting with the internals of the cardboard. Vivi shared that technique knowledge with me a while back and it is eye opening.) I think there is more slicing when the knife is angled down. A knife with belly has this to a degree where a wharncliffe does not, so you have to angle it manually. Serrations have that angle built in all over. Another comparison for what I am poorly trying to say would be the blade shape of a guillotine. They have that blade coming down at 45 degrees instead of 90 degrees to the cut.

Well this is fun! Thanks for sharing.

Yeah we used to have to manually cut board where I work for various reasons and we would teach people to cut at a 45 degree angle instead of 90 degrees, and that was taught to me so this concept is surely older than all of us. It's a useful technique for more than just boxes too, anything rigid that won't separate around your blade will cut easier like this.

I will surely pull my Military 2 into the mix, and I actually just found a whole box of this same board yesterday, it's full of parts but I should be able to snag it and then I'll have a bunch of it to cut up. Comparing the two Military 2's will actually be a more apples to apples comparison than comparing to the Chief but I'll compare them all. I'm pretty sure I also cut this same board with my SE Chap but I will do that again too.

[Evil D]

Alright so I brought the SE Chief and SE Military 2 today but I forgot the PE Chief so I'm going to take this board home today and test it there.

I'm pretty confident at this point that this all comes down to apex thinness and bevel angle, because the Chief zipped through this like it was a common box and the SE Military 2 cut through but with noticably more effort but did make the cut, and I tried the 15V Military 2 again and was able to make a small short cut off a new corner but trying to make a deeper cut still bound up and I couldn't budge it.







This was after just a couple minutes of trying, I'm going hard with these cuts.




So I got some calipers out and measured, and as best as I can hold it looks like the Chief measures at about 0.030 at the top of the serration bevel about 3 scallops from the plunge line, and the SE Military 2 measures around 0.037 at the same place. I then took the calipers off and slid them up the 15V blade without closing them back and they moved up the blade and stopped right around the same area that would be the top of the serrations if it had them, which tells me the blade grinds of these two Military's are very similar if not exactly the same aside from serrations, which tells me the biggest difference between the two is lower than that at the edge.

The 15V is stupid sharp, it's not a matter of sharpness, I think the bevel is just too thick and causes too much resistance in a deep cut into rigid material like this. I suspect that my 4V Chief will push cut this fairly easily because it has a thinner blade grind than the Military 2 and has also been reprofiled to around 12 degrees per side.

I think I cut this board with my Bodacious back when I first cut it with my Chief but I don't remember. I bet that knife moves through it with ease, so I think this is more of a geometry contest than PE vs SE.

[Aladinsane]

Got my first ever SE today! Leafjumper SE VG-10! Loving it so far, it tore through pallet straps and thick tie wraps and nylon rope at work like butter! Looking at Lil Temperance LW SE and Chaparral SE next. I might be hooked!!

[vivi]

Alright so I brought the SE Chief and SE Military 2 today but I forgot the PE Chief so I'm going to take this board home today and test it there.

I'm pretty confident at this point that this all comes down to apex thinness and bevel angle, because the Chief zipped through this like it was a common box and the SE Military 2 cut through but with noticably more effort but did make the cut, and I tried the 15V Military 2 again and was able to make a small short cut off a new corner but trying to make a deeper cut still bound up and I couldn't budge it.







This was after just a couple minutes of trying, I'm going hard with these cuts.




So I got some calipers out and measured, and as best as I can hold it looks like the Chief measures at about 0.030 at the top of the serration bevel about 3 scallops from the plunge line, and the SE Military 2 measures around 0.037 at the same place. I then took the calipers off and slid them up the 15V blade without closing them back and they moved up the blade and stopped right around the same area that would be the top of the serrations if it had them, which tells me the blade grinds of these two Military's are very similar if not exactly the same aside from serrations, which tells me the biggest difference between the two is lower than that at the edge.

The 15V is stupid sharp, it's not a matter of sharpness, I think the bevel is just too thick and causes too much resistance in a deep cut into rigid material like this. I suspect that my 4V Chief will push cut this fairly easily because it has a thinner blade grind than the Military 2 and has also been reprofiled to around 12 degrees per side.

I think I cut this board with my Bodacious back when I first cut it with my Chief but I don't remember. I bet that knife moves through it with ease, so I think this is more of a geometry contest than PE vs SE.

yep, it all comes down to geometry.

take a stock CE Spyderco and the SE portion will cut through thick cardboard more easily.

give the PE the same edge angle as the SE part and performance is a lot more even.

what a lot of people are seeing when they fall in love with serrated edges are the benefits of acute edge geometry more than the properties of the serrations themselves.

Turns out 15 degree inclusive edges slice stuff better than 35-40 degree inclusive edges

[Evil D]

Alright so I brought the SE Chief and SE Military 2 today but I forgot the PE Chief so I'm going to take this board home today and test it there.

I'm pretty confident at this point that this all comes down to apex thinness and bevel angle, because the Chief zipped through this like it was a common box and the SE Military 2 cut through but with noticably more effort but did make the cut, and I tried the 15V Military 2 again and was able to make a small short cut off a new corner but trying to make a deeper cut still bound up and I couldn't budge it.







This was after just a couple minutes of trying, I'm going hard with these cuts.




So I got some calipers out and measured, and as best as I can hold it looks like the Chief measures at about 0.030 at the top of the serration bevel about 3 scallops from the plunge line, and the SE Military 2 measures around 0.037 at the same place. I then took the calipers off and slid them up the 15V blade without closing them back and they moved up the blade and stopped right around the same area that would be the top of the serrations if it had them, which tells me the blade grinds of these two Military's are very similar if not exactly the same aside from serrations, which tells me the biggest difference between the two is lower than that at the edge.

The 15V is stupid sharp, it's not a matter of sharpness, I think the bevel is just too thick and causes too much resistance in a deep cut into rigid material like this. I suspect that my 4V Chief will push cut this fairly easily because it has a thinner blade grind than the Military 2 and has also been reprofiled to around 12 degrees per side.

I think I cut this board with my Bodacious back when I first cut it with my Chief but I don't remember. I bet that knife moves through it with ease, so I think this is more of a geometry contest than PE vs SE.

yep, it all comes down to geometry.

take a stock CE Spyderco and the SE portion will cut through thick cardboard more easily.

give the PE the same edge angle as the SE part and performance is a lot more even.

what a lot of people are seeing when they fall in love with serrated edges are the benefits of acute edge geometry more than the properties of the serrations themselves.

Turns out 15 degree inclusive edges slice stuff better than 35-40 degree inclusive edges

There's still a lot to be said for the mechanical advantage of the shape of serrations but I agree a big part of it is just far thinner edges than people are used to, and these two things combined make for very aggressive cutting action especially when you start making pull/slicing/sawing motions.

I also tried this cut with a couple of my Microtechs and yeah....those knives are far more effective at piercing things than slicing. You can literally hammer them through a 2x4 easier than you can cut this board. That's not an insult to the brand or knife either, it's just an aspect of their design and intended use.

I brought this piece of board home, I'm gonna get out a bunch of knives this weekend and play around with it.

[Wartstein]

...
give the PE the same edge angle as the SE part and performance is a lot more even.

what a lot of people are seeing when they fall in love with serrated edges are the benefits of acute edge geometry more than the properties of the serrations themselves....

...There's still a lot to be said for the mechanical advantage of the shape of serrations but I agree a big part of it is just far thinner edges than people are used to,,,

@vivi : Yes, this has always been my question (what makes SE superior over PE in my use: More the "teeth", or more the more acute chisel grind angle) - thanks for your input!

But, as David touches on:

- I think one just CAN`T give a PE V-edge the same acute inclusive edge angle as SE (chisel) grind while maintaining the same edge stability

I may quote Michael Janich once more from the serrations article in the byte August 24 (https://mailchi.mp/spyderco/spyderco-by ... cycb2mvhza):

"Logically, the “included” angle of that chisel-ground edge is half that of a comparable V-ground edge. On a PlainEdge™ blade, that would leave the terminal portion of the edge extremely fragile and prone to rolling or chipping. However, the unique structure of serration teeth and, very importantly, the ridges between them, actually reinforces the structural strength of the edge. Despite its thinner edge geometry, it remains strong."