CPM Prototype Steel

[aicolainen]

Hi, @Jesla
I'm sorry that's your conclusion after reading my posts/horzuffs post. I have no idea how that happened, so there is probably no use in me trying to explain further.

I will say though, it does feel strange to be assigned the role as defender of internet hype. That's very far from who I am.
I don't even have a favorite steel to defend. They are all compromises, I'm merely looking for the best trade offs for each application.

[sal]

I guess that I should mention that Spyderco is also testing this new material.

sal

[Mk-211]

The irony...

[Mushroom]

The irony...

Correct, Larrin confirmed the primary element is iron.

[RustyIron]

Sharp irony cuts deep,
Steely resolve forged in fire,
Iron will honed keen.

[WilliamMunny]

I guess that I should mention that Spyderco is also testing this new material.

sal

Awesome, it could make for an interesting Mule.

[Fastidiotus]

I don't even have a favorite steel to defend. They are all compromises, I'm merely looking for the best trade offs for each application.

^As Sal says "not better, but different." More steels can only be more better in my mind.

Dr. Larrin has a very unique approach to formulating new steels compared to the large steel manufacturers. Most of our favorite steels were formulated for another purpose and happen to also work well as blades. Having someone out there convincing steel companies to produce steels specifically with blades in mind can't be a bad thing. Personally interested in seeing how this plays out. This may not end being my idea of a perfect steel, but surely with the time Dr. Larrin has invested into this it will end up being some people's favorite steel and that can't be a bad thing.

[ChoilsChoilsChoils]

Based on Larrin's stainless steel recommendations (AEB-L for toughness, S110V for wear resistance, Manacut for balance), I'm guessing it's a higher toughness "Magnacut-ified" version of S110V (both steels use a healthy dose of niobium to prevent chromium carbide formation), with a substantial nitrogen replacement of carbon, chromium reduction to 10-11%, and perhaps some added tungten and reduced cobalt.

[Fireman]

I guess that I should mention that Spyderco is also testing this new material.

sal

Incredible news! PS, did you get my email? Thanks!

[Manixguy@1994]

So what is the intention with this steel? Toughness, corrosion resistance, edge holding or Seems we already have seen an attempt at all things for everyone? I will be interested to see how this one is marketed and even more interested to see if it can live up to the interweb hype machine.

Are you referring to magnacut?

I'm neither a steel nerd, nor do I have very good memory. But as far as I remember, Larrin's intention with MC was to create a more balanced steel than what was currently available. It wasn't intended to be all things for everyone, just a little more of everything for those who didn't want to give up too much in either one category to get enough in another.
To my understanding that worked out quite nicely, and even better than expected in the stainlessness category, but (and now I'm really going off my poor memory here) I seem to remember Larrin was quite quick to remark that he wasn't finished. And given the opportunity he saw potential to build on his experience with MC to create more specialized versions that would be more geared to excel in specific areas.

Yes I was…. I am a big fan of Dr.Larrin, I have and have read his books. I have a MagnaCut blade and it didn’t seem to be an improvement, in my use, over S110V. If I’m going to pay extra for a steel I might as well spend what it takes to get the steel that works best, in my use. Sorry if that’s an issue for you. Like I said I’m looking forward to see what the new wonder steel can do for me.

But MagnaCut was never advertised as being an upgrade for every steel in every parameter. From the very start it's main selling point was balance, not giving up too much of any of the trifecta characteristics (edge retention, toughness and corrosion resistance).

If You compare it to an extreme steel like S110V and are mostly focused on edge retention then of course it won't be better. That's because S110V is an edge retention (and corrosion resistance to boot) monster . But it has a couple TIMES lower toughness at similar hardness so it might not be the best choice for a do-it-all blade compared to MC

Well said , there is a steel out there for everyone to enjoy . I think Larrin accomplished his mission for a well balanced steel and look forward to the properties of his next steel and how it will have a place in the knife industry. MG2

[horzuff]

Are you referring to magnacut?

I'm neither a steel nerd, nor do I have very good memory. But as far as I remember, Larrin's intention with MC was to create a more balanced steel than what was currently available. It wasn't intended to be all things for everyone, just a little more of everything for those who didn't want to give up too much in either one category to get enough in another.
To my understanding that worked out quite nicely, and even better than expected in the stainlessness category, but (and now I'm really going off my poor memory here) I seem to remember Larrin was quite quick to remark that he wasn't finished. And given the opportunity he saw potential to build on his experience with MC to create more specialized versions that would be more geared to excel in specific areas.

Yes I was…. I am a big fan of Dr.Larrin, I have and have read his books. I have a MagnaCut blade and it didn’t seem to be an improvement, in my use, over S110V. If I’m going to pay extra for a steel I might as well spend what it takes to get the steel that works best, in my use. Sorry if that’s an issue for you. Like I said I’m looking forward to see what the new wonder steel can do for me.

But MagnaCut was never advertised as being an upgrade for every steel in every parameter. From the very start it's main selling point was balance, not giving up too much of any of the trifecta characteristics (edge retention, toughness and corrosion resistance).

If You compare it to an extreme steel like S110V and are mostly focused on edge retention then of course it won't be better. That's because S110V is an edge retention (and corrosion resistance to boot) monster . But it has a couple TIMES lower toughness at similar hardness so it might not be the best choice for a do-it-all blade compared to MC

1. First, I never said S110V was all things to all people. I said IN MY USE I have found nothing that out preforms it, IN MY USE. Let’s see you said BALANCED, balance in this case, I believe refers to compromise. When you use a 1 to 10 scale and you have a cluster of steels hovering above 9 then I question the validity of the scale or tester conclusion.

This new steel may very well surpass S110V IN MY USE, we will see. I am waiting, with everyone else to see if the steel equals the hype, IN MY USE.

2. Why do you guys jump on and try to shut down anyone in this forum that doesn’t toe your line regarding YOUR PREFERED steel or method of opening and closing or (insert your choice here)? MAGNACUT and for that matter any steel has to prove itself to ME. I DON’T OFF HAND ACCEPT INTERNET HYPE OR SO CALLED “TRUTHS“. If that is a problem for you, you have a personal issue to workout.

Ad.1. I didn't say S110V is all things to all people either nor did I imply You did.
It would be a compromise only if You were focusing more on one of the parameters and disregarding the others. If You were looking for a steel with balanced properties it would be just that, a balance.
As for the 1-10 scale part - MagnaCut isn't posited as a 10 in every area nor is any other steel out there. Larrin gave the steel 7 for toughness, 5 for edge retention and 9,5 for corrosion resistance. So not sure what You're getting at

Ad.2. I'm not trying to force You to like anything. I'm not even saying whatever steel is good or bad.
You voiced Your disappointment with MC saying it's not better in Your use than S110V when it was never advertised to be that in the area You apparently care about most.
That's like buying a decent hatchback and being disappointed that's it's not a great racecar, is lousy off-road or doesn't carry 2 tonnes of load. Wouldn't You say that's misguided?

If You just said "I prefer S110V cuz I need edge retention" then all would be dandy. When You say "I'm disappointed that it was advertised as an improvement over S110V but it's not" then it's just not true, because a) it was never advertised as very high in edge retention, b) is a match or an improvement in all other areas.

I guess that I should mention that Spyderco is also testing this new material.

sal

Great to hear! Can't wait for more details :D

[Evil D]

Looking at the various charts there does seem to be a lack of very high edge retention mixed with very high toughness, even at the cost of corrosion resistance.

[Jesla]

I think some need to go back to page 3 and start reading from my first post.

I am still asking what the target is for this steel? Is it going to be toughness, edge retention or corrosion? Then I said this “balanced” steel didn’t work well enough for me. And judged it against internet hype.

Again I am waiting like everyone else to see if this new steel will work for me. Internet hype does not determine what I think is a good steel for my use.

If this new steel can hold an edge and resist corrosion better than S110V, that would be great. And even better if it was tougher, though I have never damaged S110V. That’s the goal post and I hope like everyone else we get there. I am just not sure current technology is there yet.

[Jesla]

I have every confidence that Spyderco and BBB will crack the code, so I won’t be going down the me-first brands road.

[Steeltoez83]

I have cut tested spyderco s110v from 58 hrc all the way to 62.6 hrc. I'm probably not going to display my results just from how wide the range varied in hardness from all my samples. Plus I test at 1k and prefer s110V at >1k for carry.

I'm curious to see what this experimental alloy is able to do. All my questions will likely be answered in time I suppose. Makes no sense to ask this early in the beta phases. There appears to be a high level fun factor going on which is always a blessing.

[RugerNurse]

Hey Shawn,

That's a really nice design. I would like to purchase one in any steel? In fact, I'd really like one in SPY27. How thick and how long of a piece would you need?

sal

Can you show us that beauty when it’s done?

[horzuff]

Looking at the various charts there does seem to be a lack of very high edge retention mixed with very high toughness, even at the cost of corrosion resistance.

This might be pretty hard from what Larrin always says - edge retention is somewhat proportional to carbide volume (and type of course) while toughness is inversely proportional to carbide volume and size so they are opposing to some extent.

Though I'd also like to see a steel with those maximized with no regards to corrosion resistance just to see what's possible :D

[Evil D]

Looking at the various charts there does seem to be a lack of very high edge retention mixed with very high toughness, even at the cost of corrosion resistance.

This might be pretty hard from what Larrin always says - edge retention is somewhat proportional to carbide volume (and type of course) while toughness is inversely proportional to carbide volume and size so they are opposing to some extent.

Though I'd also like to see a steel with those maximized with no regards to corrosion resistance just to see what's possible :D

I definitely can't speak for everyone but it's an appealing idea for me because corrosion resistance is the one attribute that we can sort of control from outside of the steel. We can't do anything to improve edge retention and toughness beyond changing the edge angle and finish but even that has a limit.

[Larrin]

The orange line is the approximate limit. You choose along the line how much toughness and edge retention you want. It’s been difficult historically to get stainless steels up to the orange line. Stainless steels are the blue dots.

[gooeytek]

The orange line is the approximate limit. You choose along the line how much toughness and edge retention you want. It’s been difficult historically to get stainless steels up to the orange line. Stainless steels are the blue dots.

Gonna need the IDs of some of those blue dots, doc