Spyderco Native Chief Lightweight Observations

[zhyla]

Hey, does the back of your lock bar stick up this much with the knife assembled?

I think that’s just an optical illusion from the angle I took the photo at.

And just to be clear, choils work well on the regular Native sized knives. I’m not anti choil. In this knife it just makes it feel like I’m holding the knife off balance.

[Big50]

Most of my Spydercos have good to excellent QC.
That said, I’ve had duds from the US (Para3 LW), Japan (Delica), Italy (PITS), and even Taichung (Shempp Bowie—that one really bothered me). It sucks when it happens.

I picked up a NC Salt last week. The centering is good. The action is acceptable (I wasn’t expecting greatness). The blade play isn’t excessive. It does have the little unsharpened spot by the choil—I’m sure it’s the robot. Overall my sample meets my satisfaction. I’ll be keeping it; maybe it will get a Rit treatment. It will be a task-specific knife, which is mostly what I buy these days. It sucks yours didn’t meet expectations.

It wasn’t util I started thinking, and reading, that the cost for linerless FRN and Magnacut came into focus. I get the price/satisfaction ratio logic.
I agree it makes the Endura and PacSalt seem all the more awesome.

[vivi]

Hey, does the back of your lock bar stick up this much with the knife assembled?

I think that’s just an optical illusion from the angle I took the photo at.

And just to be clear, choils work well on the regular Native sized knives. I’m not anti choil. In this knife it just makes it feel like I’m holding the knife off balance.

Ah ok. Most the ones I had with a lock bar that didn't sit flush were the opposite of how yours looked - the lock bar sat 2-4mm below the back spacer.

I agree on choils. They make sense when used to facilitate 4 finger grips on models like the caly jr, dragonfly and salsa. On larger knives like the Chief that offer a full grip without a choil, I would find additional cutting edge more useful.

Most of my Spydercos have good to excellent QC.
That said, I’ve had duds from the US (Para3 LW), Japan (Delica), Italy (PITS), and even Taichung (Shempp Bowie—that one really bothered me). It sucks when it happens.

I picked up a NC Salt last week. The centering is good. The action is acceptable (I wasn’t expecting greatness). The blade play isn’t excessive. It does have the little unsharpened spot by the choil—I’m sure it’s the robot. Overall my sample meets my satisfaction. I’ll be keeping it; maybe it will get a Rit treatment. It will be a task-specific knife, which is mostly what I buy these days. It sucks yours didn’t meet expectations.

It wasn’t util I started thinking, and reading, that the cost for linerless FRN and Magnacut came into focus. I get the price/satisfaction ratio logic.
I agree it makes the Endura and PacSalt seem all the more awesome.

I've certainly had some very well made Spydercos too. I'm not trying to knock the brand - just pointing out areas where I honestly see room for improvement.

I have an original run Street Beat that feels like a custom knife. About as flawless as a production knife can get.

My DLC Yojumbo was literally one tiny little ding in the cutting edge away from being absolutely perfect. It was extremely well made.

My M4 Manix XL's have been flawless for me, aside from a tiny bit of lock stick that went away after a short break in period. Some of the finest crafted production folders I have ever handled. Super smooth, zero play, great clips, extremely sharp out of the box, etc.


So if my expectations seem high, it's because that's where Spyderco themselves set the bar.

On price - I was shocked when I saw $192 street price for the Chief Salts. This time next year they'll be over $200.

Value is subjective, but my LW Chief didn't feel like a $200 knife to me.

For reference, I got my first Pacific Salt for about $65. I got most my Pacific Salt 1's for $70-90. I may have paid up to $100 for one of them.

They feel rock solid with their mono-piece handles - I love their simple construction. They have absolutely excellent contouring. The clips work great every time. I love having one beefy clip screw instead of tiny torx screws that require special tools to deal with. They feel bomb proof - they're one of the few pocket knives I'm comfortable using for light prying thanks to their robust saber grind. With a thinned out edge they cut very well, and with a coarse apex their edge retention is astonishing.

While they exhibit the vertical lock rock other Spydie lockbacks do - I have never had an issue with them having side to side play unless you want to count well used early versions with pinned pivots. All my screw pivot Pac 1's have zero side to side play and very smooth operation.

Not that this is an apples to apples comparison - but I checked ebay, and I still see used Pacific 1's in good shape for $60-75 shipped, and NIB examples for $100-120 or best offer.

I paid about $110-120 for my Pacific 2's. Sure, it was a little more, but nothing too crazy considering prices had been increasing across the board for years. All of mine are H1 for what its worth, barring the PE and SE LC200N Pac 2's I bought.

The H1 versions had a little side to side play unless I cranked down on the pivot, but nothing too excessive. Worse than the first gen, sure, but it was pretty minor.

The LC200N version is where this really became an issue for me. I could crank the pivot down to where opening & closing action was obviously hindered by the tightness, but there would still be obvious side to side play. It was pretty bad in those runs for me, and that contributed to why I eventually sold them.

I guess the price difference between the Pacific Salt 2 and the Chief Salt can be partially explained by the different country of origin. The H2 Pacific 2 is currently still around $120 regular retail price, while the LC200N version is $140-145.

I expected something closer to $150 for the Chief Salt.

I paid about $115-125 for two other salt knives I bought within the past 24 months- a Stretch XL in PE H1, and a Catcherman in CE LC200N.

Price aside, I think I'm simply happiest with my Pacific 1's for my lightweight salt folder.

I tried the Pacific 2 and while I learned to like its handle, I still preferred the 1.

I tried the Stretch XL Salt, and while I liked some things about it better (no need to reprofile the tip to a proper point!), I liked the sturdier feeling handle and blade of my Pacific 1's.

I tried the Chief LW, thinking since I love the Chief design so much it'd replace my Pacifics, but it just doesn't feel as sturdy or well made.

I suppose I should be happy in a sense. I bought up A LOT of Pacific 1's when they got discontinued. I have something like 8 used ones, and 5 brand new sitting in boxes. PE and SE. Even have a few 3D printed wire clip adapters for them, so I have different options.

I'm going to stop trying to replace something that works so well for me.

[zhyla]

On price - I was shocked when I saw $192 street price for the Chief Salts. This time next year they'll be over $200.

I’m not surprised by that price for a USA made name brand knife. I don’t think Spyderco is making a killing on this knife. I’m just surprised there’s that many people willing to pay $200 for a knife. So many people they could do an FRN model!

[vivi]

On price - I was shocked when I saw $192 street price for the Chief Salts. This time next year they'll be over $200.

I’m not surprised by that price for a USA made name brand knife. I don’t think Spyderco is making a killing on this knife. I’m just surprised there’s that many people willing to pay $200 for a knife. So many people they could do an FRN model!

Especially considering the Pacific 2 can still be purchased for $120.

Sirens, which to me feel like a much higher build quality, can still be purchased for $175-190. (g10/lc200n)

[zhyla]

Especially considering the Pacific 2 can still be purchased for $120.

This right here is something really missing from the knife community IMO: any sense of practicality. The idea that two knives of rough the same size and characteristic are fungible is not something you hear a lot.

One thing I’m not sure I caught from your writeup is what you think this knife is good for. I came to the conclusion eventually that it’s a really good stabbing weapon and would be great in a knife fighting daydream and not much else. In reality I cut boxes etc. I know you value the larger knives a lot. This knife is long and pointy. I find my Police to be a bit more handy to be honest if I want to carry a long blade (possibly due to lack of choil).

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Especially considering the Pacific 2 can still be purchased for $120.

This right here is something really missing from the knife community IMO: any sense of practicality. The idea that two knives of rough the same size and characteristic are fungible is not something you hear a lot.

One thing I’m not sure I caught from your writeup is what you think this knife is good for. I came to the conclusion eventually that it’s a really good stabbing weapon and would be great in a knife fighting daydream and not much else. In reality I cut boxes etc. I know you value the larger knives a lot. This knife is long and pointy. I find my Police to be a bit more handy to be honest if I want to carry a long blade (possibly due to lack of choil).

In your experience and estimation how generally useful are the Spyderco hawkbill blades like Tasman Salt, Spyder Hawk, Byrd Hawkbill and Cross Bill, etc compared to the straighter and leaf shaped blades?

[Gtscotty]

On price - I was shocked when I saw $192 street price for the Chief Salts. This time next year they'll be over $200.

Value is subjective, but my LW Chief didn't feel like a $200 knife to me.

........

I expected something closer to $150 for the Chief Salt.

I'm with you there, it's hard for me to swallow the value proposition of the Chief Salt at $200, was expecting closer to $150 -$170, and it would have made sense to me at that price, barring some of the quality and execution issues that have been brought up.

[Bolster]

Maybe my thinking on the LW-Magna-NC is faulty, you decide:

I pre-purchased this knife (a year ago, have not received it yet, and maybe never will) for $134 + tax from SMKW. I thought it would be an ideal option for an outdoors/hiking/backpacking knife. Long, in case (1) part of the edge gets dulled or (2) it's needed for SD. Choiled, so it's easy to choke up for precise heel-of-blade cuts. Tough, given likely use on wood or bone. Lightweight. Easy to find in yellow if dropped.

Given that the knife seemed dialed in for outdoor activities, and given what other backpacking gear costs, the price I paid seemed appropriate. (Now if I can just get it delivered !!) If I had to pay >$200 for it, I think I'd default to the LW Magna Manix, which is competitively capable on most points except blade length.

[vivi]

Maybe my thinking on the LW-Magna-NC is faulty, you decide:

I pre-purchased this knife (a year ago, have not received it yet, and maybe never will) for $134 + tax from SMKW. I thought it would be an ideal option for an outdoors/hiking/backpacking knife. Long, in case (1) part of the edge gets dulled or (2) it's needed for SD. Choiled, so it's easy to choke up for precise heel-of-blade cuts. Tough, given likely use on wood or bone. Lightweight. Easy to find in yellow if dropped.

Given that the knife seemed dialed in for outdoor activities, and given what other backpacking gear costs, the price I paid seemed appropriate. (Now if I can just get it delivered !!) If I had to pay >$200 for it, I think I'd default to the LW Magna Manix, which is competitively capable on most points except blade length.

That seems like a sensible take and a much more agreeable price. I'd be less critical paying $10 more than a Pacific Salt 2.

[u.w.]

I too ordered one of these (non-magnacut NC LWs while they were on sale. (the sale price was too good to say no to). I ordered the blacked out model f/Cutlery Shoppe. I've done a bit of business with them over the years, which started with a saber-ground ZDP189 Endura many, many years ago. I've only had fantastic experiences with them. Thank you Cutlery Shoppe.

Back to my Native Chief Lightweight.



Mine has none of the issues vivi's came with. So if you were hesitant due to his write up, I can say they are not all like that.

My lockbar sits flush. My blade is centered enough, as in it doesn't contact either side (if it's not rubbing - I really don't care. Mine does very slightly favor the show side, but doesn't touch or rub, so I don't give it a thought or care) I do not have any perceptible blade/lock-rock on mine, nor any lateral (side-to-side) play. It does have a nice and strong back(mid)lock spring tension, which I like, as that will definitely aid in a staying closed bias. More than easy enough to open (and close) when I want it opened (or closed). In fact, when I hold mine horizontally and press the lockbar in, the blade free-falls about 25% of the way closed. Likely that will improve, or increase, as I carry and use it.
Yes, I have put my own lower grit, lower edge angle on it & yes I have shortened that little nub at the forward part of the finger choil, and yes I have "taken a little off the top" (reprofiled/sanded) the spine down some, as is my preference. I do that on a lot of my spydercos... maybe all?

Yes, the clip could be longer and that would place it off the textured portion of the handle and on the smooth "pad". I think that could aid in less wear on clothing (e.g. waistband, pockets). If Spyderco made the flat section with the Spyder on it (of the clip) 3/8" to 1/2" longer, that would put the pressure point of the pocket clip well into the smooth portion of the handle/grip. Keep everything else the same - extend that one flat measurement 3/8" to 1/2"...
Go right inbetween and call it 7/16"? That'd do it.
And you could do that for the Native Chief Lightweight and Police 4 Lightweight. I'd include the Resilience, but that is a different clip...

What I find SUPER interesting is just how close the Native Chief is to the Endura/PacSalt and Stretch 2 XL LW. The edge length is within only about an eighth of an inch difference... Further - the Native Chief Lightweight and the S2XL LW Salt weigh, on my scale, the same... They're (Endura, Stretch2 XL, PacSalt2, Native Chief) very, very close to each other in terms of edge length.

Here's some comparison photos to show just how close the edge lengths are.

My Stretch2XL LW Salt on top of my Native Chief LW



And They Weigh the Same (2.9oz) on my scale... Very Nearly identical edge length...

Yes, that (my) S2XL SALT cuts like the proverbial lazer being that thinned out behind the edge. Done by hand, on stones. HUGE improvement to how it cuts.

My M4 Endura on top of my Native Chief LW



that's patina, not rust. it (the endura) is heavier.

and lastly, my (I love this knife) FFG PacSalt 2 on top of my Native Chief LW



carried and used a lot yesterday morning on my sunday, funday, runday =-]

All that to show - MAN... They are SO close in edge length. At or less than 0.125". Interesting that some are called "XL" or "Chief". Basically the same edge as the Endura/PacSalt...

Though the PacSalt2 FFG weighs a notable amount less. Like ~ 20% less (than the NC LW or S2XL LW)... I have no issue with the thumb hole hump on the Endura/PacSalt knives. None at all. I carry and use my Enduras&PacSalts a decent amount (as perhaps can be told by the photos).

I didn't realize that the edge lengths where essentially the same when I ordered my Native Chief LW(s). Had I, I think I may have passed on the model. I have zero complaints with LC200N. Quite the opposite, I will happily sing it's praises.
That said, I'm happy to give the NC LW a fair shake all the same, and excited to finally get some Magnacut in my hands. E-Mail says it will be delivered today, so...

If you want a Native Chief Lightweight, order one. They're not all bad. The one I got has none of the issues vivi's has.

u.w.

[vivi]

First of all I'm glad yours turned out better than mine. It's a fantastic design with some really cool engineering. Zhylas take down pictures capture just how well everything fits together. Very well designed.

What you say about the sizes is something I've been bringing up a lot. I harp on it for paragraph after paragraph in my Catcherman review:

viewtopic.php?t=96974

I want Spyderco to make some XL knives that actually feel XL.

Most their regular models top out at the Endura size, save for the Police and Millie. The latter doesn't even have any more cutting edge than a Chief.

Manix "XL" doesn't even fit my grip well while wearing thin gloves.

Stretch "XL" works better for me than the Stretch, but is no bigger than a Pacific Salt (main reason I sold my two off, a vg10 and H1 PE).

These models are just big enough to feel full sized for my ungloved hand.

Now, I'm not asking for a Spyderco Espada XL. Just give us a Pacific Salt XL with a full 4.5" of edge and I'll shut up. I promise.

Spyderco has a million and a half 3"-3.5" designs. They get sprint after sprint.

For a regular catalog offering of folders with a ~4.5" blade, we have exactly 0 options.

The Police is close at 4.2" and that is one reason it's among my favorite models they make. Out of every regular production model, it is the knife Spyderco makes that matches my hand size the best. But the handle is thinner than I want - it definitely prioritizes pocket comfort more than I do. I appreciate a nice thick handle meant for hard work on a full sized knife.

I hope the next reveal has something like this. I really do. I don't like going to other companies for these folders, I want a Spyderco sized for me.

[cabfrank]

I hope the factory expansion allows you to get a model sized as you want it. I'm sure others would like it too. I know I'd get one.
I'm glad to hear some have received examples without issues. It could be luck, but maybe CQI is involved too. The issues many of us had are not typical or expected from Spyderco, which is why it was surprising. Except for those issues, I really love this design. If I ever get my replacement pivot screw I'll be very eager to start using mine again, and I won't be stabbing anything with it.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I hope the factory expansion allows you to get a model sized as you want it. I'm sure others would like it too. I know I'd get one.
I'm glad to hear some have received examples without issues. It could be luck, but maybe CQI is involved too. The issues many of us had are not typical or expected from Spyderco, which is why it was surprising. Except for those issues, I really love this design. If I ever get my replacement pivot screw I'll be very eager to start using mine again, and I won't be stabbing anything with it.

Question, sir: how will the factory expansion help Spyderco produce more new and existing models? More room for machines like CNC mills, drill presses, honing and buffing wheels, etc?

That is very good!

I know it's been discussed here before and I recall the answer was no, but I would so like them to add a custom alteration section where we could choose blade steel, grind, shape, length, and other variations, along with different handle choices. Am I correct that the way Spyderco calculates whether to undertake such an expansion is not merely that forum members here would definitely purchase such custom pieces but is there going to be overall profit for the company in the greater knife sales market to justify the costs?

[u.w.]

I've mentioned it in a few posts, and there's been some agreement, I'd love to see a FFG SALT (e.g. linerless) Police LW. I've got a lot of love for that model.

u.w.

[cycleguy]

Have to say I choked a little when seeing the price on the current Magnacut Native Chief. Have held off from purchase not being a sprint, now that dealer is OOS, so I guess others aren’t choking about it as I did.

You know when you know … could feel some changes coming about … this weekend decided to part with all my UKPKs except two and part with all my Enduras except two and part with my last Caly 3 … will continue to collect non-coated Native Chiefs for now, as well as Delica 4.

Also, started parting with a few kitchen knives from Japan and a Benchmade fixed blade.

I think many factors are to blame, prices and available funds certainly contributing to the pullback.

CG

[vivi]

I've mentioned it in a few posts, and there's been some agreement, I'd love to see a FFG SALT (e.g. linerless) Police LW. I've got a lot of love for that model.

u.w.

Assuming it's put together well and is reasonably priced, I'd buy at least 5 of those. I've said it before, that could easily be the last single blade locking folder I buy.

Have to say I choked a little when seeing the price on the current Magnacut Native Chief. Have held off from purchase not being a sprint, now that dealer is OOS, so I guess others aren’t choking about it as I did.

You know when you know … could feel some changes coming about … this weekend decided to part with all my UKPKs except two and part with all my Enduras except two and part with my last Caly 3 … will continue to collect non-coated Native Chiefs for now, as well as Delica 4.

Also, started parting with a few kitchen knives from Japan and a Benchmade fixed blade.

I think many factors are to blame, prices and available funds certainly contributing to the pullback.

CG

I've done a lot of slimming down too. While it's fun to look at those photos of folks with 50+ of the same model, like Yablanowitz and his Police collection, that could never be me. In fact, despite the Police being in contention for my #1 Spyderco knife, I currently only have one - my first Police, a first run Police 3 PE in G10 and VG10.

I have done a lot of trimming of my collection the past few years. I'm down to a single Chief and a single Manix XL as well, something I never thought I'd do 2-3 years ago. And I'm happy with that decision looking back.

Not to get too preachy, but reading the bible and then looking through these massive collections of material goods, it feels like a conflict of interest.

Kind of reminds of the fight club quote I've always loved, "the things you own, end up owning you."

Having been exposed to a severe hoarder in life, I've seen the burden it can be. So I try to trim excess every so often. In fact I already have the next group picked out to be axed (more cold steel that spyderco this time).

Something I've learned is EDCing the same knife day in day out, it's a lot easier to maintain one knife than an EDC rotation. Keeping one knife sharp, lubed, clean and screws loc-tited is much easier than 10 or 20. I like having the same things in my EDC tray each morning and not thinking about what to carry.

That said, I have 5 more new knives coming in the mail this week

Posting reviews of them in the off topic section under the topic "vivi's others." With the money I got from returning the Chief LW I got six cheap knives. We'll see how that decision pans out.

[zhyla]

Not to get too preachy, but reading the bible and then looking through these massive collections of material goods, it feels like a conflict of interest.

Kind of reminds of the fight club quote I've always loved, "the things you own, end up owning you."

Yeah the consumerism aspect of nearly any hobby is hard to resist. When I have so many that it feels materialistic I usually sell a few.

The reality is we want to try all the different kinds of things. It’s normal and not evil in any way, but unrestrained it’s just a waste of resources.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Not to get too preachy, but reading the bible and then looking through these massive collections of material goods, it feels like a conflict of interest.

Kind of reminds of the fight club quote I've always loved, "the things you own, end up owning you."

Yeah the consumerism aspect of nearly any hobby is hard to resist. When I have so many that it feels materialistic I usually sell a few.

The reality is we want to try all the different kinds of things. It’s normal and not evil in any way, but unrestrained it’s just a waste of resources.

Agreed with you both.

[abbazaba]

The more I handle this knife, the more I wish it didn't have a choil. Hopefully we see a "bodacious" version of the Chief.