China

[Jimandchris2]

Some answers of epic proportion. Spyderco’s never chased purity tests—mission first, people always. These new drops prove it. ButtonUp’s button lock is a slick twist on our compression heritage: smooth, ergonomic, and wallet-friendly. Mantra 4 just got sleeker and more pocketable. The Salt crew—Shelter Cove, Goonie—tanks saltwater with LC200N and that one-hand hole you can’t fake.
Made in China? Yes, but under our eye. Heat treats are consistent, grinds sharp, ergos spot-on. No budget-bin nonsense.
The US still rules bespoke and sprints—Golden proves it—but China keeps great knives reachable. Ditching it would spike prices and kill scale. Doubling down risks slip-ups, but we don’t slip. Balance wins: best tools, best hands, best blades.
Congratulations on your success.

[Snacktime]

Tariffs come straight out of our pockets. The whole knife industry had to raise prices as most manufacturing consumables come from China. Trying to edge out the competition has hurt more domestic industries than it has helped. We live in a global economy now and have pawned off a lot of toxic industries to 3rd world countries. China is the sole source of chromium magnesium refractory brick for a reason.

Chinese knives have been climbing in price for a while and that hasn't slowed sales. Brands with new locks and mechanisms are selling out instantly showing enthusiast are still around. Innovation has been a key part of the industry.

Spyderco's patent expired, Benchmade's patent expired and next year Cold Steel's patent expires. These brands need to evolve with innovation or they will slowly be edged out. Right now it's about figity locks and crisp action which is all about lock configuration.

Would love to see the manix ball bearing lock get modified into a spine actuation. Some modification to the cam profile and a custom plunger it's very possible.

[zhyla]

So if someone buys one, it's for good design or superior quality, not because it's cheaper.

1. Those are the same thing. At every price point China factories produce better knives.
2. This has been true for a long time.

[paladin]

So if someone buys one, it's for good design or superior quality, not because it's cheaper.

1. Those are the same thing. At every price point China factories produce better knives.
2. This has been true for a long time.

My brother toured a couple factories in Yang Jiang in 2010.

He told me then-- that those factories were so advanced-- they looked like alien tech from another planet.

Meanwhile back in the US, at that time, we were still cranking out metal fab on WWII era machines & tooling.

[ZrowsN1s]

So if someone buys one, it's for good design or superior quality, not because it's cheaper.

1. Those are the same thing. At every price point China factories produce better knives.
2. This has been true for a long time.

I guess I should have worded that better without adding superior quality. Because with the tariff, there would be no price point at which Chinese knives were better quality. That is the entire point of it. At the same level of quality, the Chinese knives should cost far more than US knives do, in the US. A $20 Chinese knife as good as a $100 US knife? Make the Chinese knife cost $140 here. $300 dollar Chinese knife, the same quality as a $600 US knife, make that Chinese knife cost $800 here. And if they adjust their quality/price point to counter, adjust the tariff in kind to keep that price disparity. An extreme example, but that is the desired outcome. For people to have to be willing to pay more for less quality Chinese knives. It would be the opposite of the current situation, where US makers are undercut at every price point.

[ZrowsN1s]

So if someone buys one, it's for good design or superior quality, not because it's cheaper.

1. Those are the same thing. At every price point China factories produce better knives.
2. This has been true for a long time.

My brother toured a couple factories in Yang Jiang in 2010.

He told me then-- that those factories were so advanced-- they looked like alien tech from another planet.

Meanwhile back in the US, at that time, we were still cranking out metal fab on WWII era machines & tooling.

A great reason to have the tariff. If all the profit that is being siphoned away from US makers by China actually went to US makers, they could invest in their manufacturing quality.

[paladin]

So if someone buys one, it's for good design or superior quality, not because it's cheaper.

1. Those are the same thing. At every price point China factories produce better knives.
2. This has been true for a long time.

My brother toured a couple factories in Yang Jiang in 2010.

He told me then-- that those factories were so advanced-- they looked like alien tech from another planet.

Meanwhile back in the US, at that time, we were still cranking out metal fab on WWII era machines & tooling.

A great reason to have the tariff. If all the profit that is being siphoned away from US makers by China actually went to US makers, they could invest in their manufacturing quality.

No, your wording is clear. Maybe mine isn't. I am not at odds with your POV.

Difficult < read: nearly impossible > to compete with a world power who has a "take no prisioners" ambition and drive to become Earth's prime superpower.

And yes, imho, we're the primary finaciers of our own demise. Tangled web sort of thing.

Life was simpler during the Cold War, in my formative years, when it was verboten for us to do any kind of business with nations of their ilk. Less choice can be a better thing, depending on the conditions.

[zhyla]

I guess I should have worded that better without adding superior quality. Because with the tariff, there would be no price point at which Chinese knives were better quality. That is the entire point of it. At the same level of quality, the Chinese knives should cost far more than US knives do, in the US.

I think tipping the scales that much is a sign the local industry just isn’t viable.

Forgetting politics, if you want to compete you’ve got to figure out how to run a factory as efficiently as the top tier factories.

Ever watch the Grimsmo knife factory videos? It’s a Canadian company but it’s really impressive the level of hands free production they do. They’re competing at the $1k price point so it’s a different situation. Worth watching. You’ll understand what it takes to compete in this industry on cost.

[zhyla]

My brother toured a couple factories in Yang Jiang in 2010.

He told me then-- that those factories were so advanced-- they looked like alien tech from another planet.

Meanwhile back in the US, at that time, we were still cranking out metal fab on WWII era machines & tooling.

I’ve had virtual tours of an electronics factory we contracted at a job I worked during the pandemic. It was very eye opening. We had a product that was so advanced in terms of miniaturization that it could only be disassembled by factory machines.

[ZrowsN1s]

I guess I should have worded that better without adding superior quality. Because with the tariff, there would be no price point at which Chinese knives were better quality. That is the entire point of it. At the same level of quality, the Chinese knives should cost far more than US knives do, in the US.

I think tipping the scales that much is a sign the local industry just isn’t viable.

Forgetting politics, if you want to compete you’ve got to figure out how to run a factory as efficiently as the top tier factories.

Ever watch the Grimsmo knife factory videos? It’s a Canadian company but it’s really impressive the level of hands free production they do. They’re competing at the $1k price point so it’s a different situation. Worth watching. You’ll understand what it takes to compete in this industry on cost.

But it is and has been viable. What changed was China undercutting US makers to disrupt our markets and manufacturing. This is true beyond just knives. The tariff would rebalance this.

[zhyla]

But it is and has been viable. What changed was China undercutting US makers to disrupt our markets and manufacturing. This is true beyond just knives. The tariff would rebalance this.

I don’t know what pricing in other USA brands is like but when a PM2 costs about what a budget .22 rifle costs you can’t say the knife company is competitive. China or no China, American made knives are awfully expensive for what they are. Tariffs won’t make USA made knives affordable.

[ZrowsN1s]

But it is and has been viable. What changed was China undercutting US makers to disrupt our markets and manufacturing. This is true beyond just knives. The tariff would rebalance this.

I don’t know what pricing in other USA brands is like but when a PM2 costs about what a budget .22 rifle costs you can’t say the knife company is competitive. China or no China, American made knives are awfully expensive for what they are. Tariffs won’t make USA made knives affordable.

In the US, and vs. Chinese knives, they will be more affordable than Chinese knives, which is the important part. The market here can balance itself out without being undercut by the Chinese manufacturers.

[dj moonbat]

The only thing I found worrisome was all the knives being made without interesting (and especially powder) steels. I'm probably just not hip enough, but when I see "_Cr_MoV" I just lose all interest.

[VandymanG]

Bottom line for me is if it helps Spyderco survive and thrive then go for it. But please upgrade steel options. Especially to compete with other knives coming out of China.

I have so many other Spyderco knives that I want that I’m not sure I’ll get to the Tenacious with CPM M4 before they sell out. I’m not even sure I’ll get to some of the knives from all the other locations but I’m going to try, sprint runs and exclusives tend to trip me up.

[Snacktime]

Only thing Tariffs do is drive up the price of goods. The local place that makes pottery clay can't afford to pay tariffs on importing raw materials. They source clays from the local areas, China, India and Australia to make products. Literally shutting down US based industries because they can't pay 100% Tariffs on a whole cargo ship.

This whole idea that Tariffs will strengthen USA manufacturing is complete garbage. Lots of businesses barely made it through COVID, to only be hit again by rapidly fluctuating prices. Lot of companies are running on empty and just crumbling.

Google AI garbage says
In the 12-month period ending December 31, 2024, there were 23,107 business bankruptcy filings in the U.S., a 22.1% increase from the 18,926 filings in the previous year. Corporate bankruptcies, specifically among public and private companies, reached a 14-year high in 2024.

[Naperville]

China's Communism/Socialism has to be understood to be appreciated.

One political party, the CCP, controls every business, law, school, import or export, the media and the military. @Sal can probably speak on the following but I think if an American company (like Tesla) wants to build cars in China, they speak to a state / county / city party members about the project and get them on board. They find CCP members with the talent to work with Tesla. The CCP takes 51% ownership in the venture. Tesla does not have control of the project. No foreign business can control any projects.

The company that Spyderco has make knives for Spyderco, is at least 51% owned by the CCP. It may be 100% owned by the CCP, with Chinese investors trying to make a buck who are controlled by the city, county and state CCP officers they reside in.

When the state / county / city members of the CCP decide to compete in an area they may ask higher up party members at the federal level for funding, and Xi's men sign off on it (or not) and FUND ALL OF IT.

You are competing with the vast sum of money the country has made off of the sale of all goods, plus taxes that are collected on citizens if you want to compete against "Joes Knife Company in Shanghai, China."

I am not an expert on China, this is the best that I can explain it using knowledge for certain terms related to geographical regions in the USA.

[burley_c]

...but I think if an American company (like Tesla) wants to build cars in China, they speak to a state / county / city party members about the project and get them on board. They find CCP members with the talent to work with Tesla.

I had a relative who, before they passed, had some first-hand experience working with China and Chinese manufacturers. Your post more or less nails it.

The only thing I'll add is that the real pain comes next. Very often these CCP partners in the venture will work with their relatives, cronies, friends, etc. and you'll see a competing manufacturer spring up doing exactly what your joint venture is doing. And because of the government backing they have, they can operate at loss undercutting your joint venture, until you go bust or move your manufacturing elsewhere.

So when dealing with China, it's not just about jobs, it's the theft of hard-won expertise and practical know-how at an economy-wide scale.

[Naperville]

...but I think if an American company (like Tesla) wants to build cars in China, they speak to a state / county / city party members about the project and get them on board. They find CCP members with the talent to work with Tesla.

I had a relative who, before they passed, had some first-hand experience working with China and Chinese manufacturers. Your post more or less nails it.

The only thing I'll add is that the real pain comes next. Very often these CCP partners in the venture will work with their relatives, cronies, friends, etc. and you'll see a competing manufacturer spring up doing exactly what your joint venture is doing. And because of the government backing they have, they can operate at loss undercutting your joint venture, until you go bust or move your manufacturing elsewhere.

So when dealing with China, it's not just about jobs, it's the theft of hard-won expertise and practical know-how at an economy-wide scale.

From time to time when I get ticked off over China, I follow news regarding China relentlessly. Sure, I'm a homer, I love The West but I get along with everyone in real life, it's the international politics and the prospect of going to war that motivates me to pay attention. I do not like the ambition of China or Russia.

I read quite a ways back just what you said about competing interests in China. YES, and the upper echelon in China has become embroiled in picking winners and losers and has intervened and told some "states" to knock it off and to quit duplicating businesses in other regions, but they ignore the CCP movers and shakers. These regional silos of power act independently and they have a ton of power, yet the people surrounding Xi also have quite a bit of power. It is not that much unlike the US. In China the major difference is that they disappear you for a while if you say something wrong or get out of line....maybe for as long as 12 months, nobody will tell anyone where the CEO went!!!!!! That is horrific in my book and everyone lives in fear.

[BornIn1500]

This whole idea that Tariffs will strengthen USA manufacturing is complete garbage.

So then why do other countries tariff us so much? Are they really just sabotaging themselves? Are all other countries just incompetent and misguided? Or maybe there's a reason for it...

[zhyla]

This whole idea that Tariffs will strengthen USA manufacturing is complete garbage.

So then why do other countries tariff us so much? Are they really just sabotaging themselves? Are all other countries just incompetent and misguided? Or maybe there's a reason for it...

It’s complicated and best left to the economists to worry about. The idea that the whole country all of a sudden has firm opinions about tariffs is a farce.

Generally speaking there are no countries out there with high enough tariffs to even out the China cost advantage.