China

[Red Leader]

Thanks Sal for the insight on what sort of percentage the value folders make up.

Just for fun, I hopped onto a 'Chinese knife' group online to see what the latest was. Most of these knives are counterfeits and clones (Strix, Rosie, Strider, CRK, Shiro, etc), although some people post original designs. The quality is nearing unbelievable territory for the price. The biggest thing holding all of these back is the fact that they have almost no original designs, so most are unlicensed replicas and that proves pretty distasteful for most so they don't gain more traction. But many reports of people owning a genuine version (safe queen) and a fake/replica/clone (work knife) and actually preferring the quality of the fake.

We should be paying attention, especially if consumers are trending more towards the 'don't care where it's made' mindset.

[CDEP]

To get it back to China, I think the Value Line is the perfect place for a fixie filet knife. Very different from the Bow river and the Stok. Been decades since I fished, but the Wilson Bow River is probably the most used knife in our kitchen. My wife uses it every day and I only need to touch it up for her every couple of months.

When the Shelter Cove drops I'll buy it so hard it may dim the lights in Golden.

[PaloArt]

Hi Sal, great idea to raise this topic actually! Offering knives made in China is not show stopper for me, steel choice is though. I purchased few knives in 8cr13mov in past 20 years or so. My first "spyderco" was Cara Cara when it was first released, then followed by Tenacious when it was first released... both knives long gone, so out of nostalgy I purchased Tan FRN Tenacious and I do like to carry and use it but I personally prefer a steels with a bit better edge holding but still easy to maintain (VG10, CTS BD1N, 14C28N etc.).

So for me, I have no problem with different Geography origin of the knife as long as it has a bit better steel (not in ballpark of AUS6\AUS8), would like to see more knives made in Europe and I am excited to see some affordable offerings from China if these have a bit better steel than 8cr13mov, as well I think there are quite few lovely European factories apart from Lionsteel making knives for affordable prices (e.g. Fox, Viper etc.).

So, excited about new designs, I think Spyderco would do better with a bit better steel that would not raise the price of product too much higher and then I think more people would be happy perhaps? Absolutely understand some people do like to support U.S. made products and are proud to do so, I would like to support Spyderco in general if price performance ratio is right in my eyes, with 8cr13mov it might not be the case, I would rather purchase a bit different pieces.

[Snacktime]

To get it back to China, I think the Value Line is the perfect place for a fixie filet knife. Very different from the Bow river and the Stok. Been decades since I fished, but the Wilson Bow River is probably the most used knife in our kitchen. My wife uses it every day and I only need to touch it up for her every couple of months.

When the Shelter Cove drops I'll buy it so hard it may dim the lights in Golden.

The interesting thing to me about this comment is how accepting Americans are of off brand kitchen cutlery. For years I had a Ginsu knife set that I could have sworn was best knives made when I bought them for $50. Just opening my kitchen drawer and looking most of my William Sonoma stuff is Chinese. My new trendy Our Place pans are China. I can't find a dam American made anything this morning in my kitchen drawers.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

This is a very good discussion that can bring positive change and open the door to new knives and markets for Spyderco.

[Bolster]

...Also Kristi is watching.

sal

Hi, Kristi! We're being good!
At least...trying to!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.

Thanx,

sal

I will always consider you and Spyderco to be a if not THE leader in the knife industry, sir. Thank you for all you and your team do.

[zhyla]

The interesting thing to me about this comment is how accepting Americans are of off brand kitchen cutlery. ... I can't find a dam American made anything this morning in my kitchen drawers.

I think that's largely because of how meh name brand stuff is. We had a somewhat expensive Wustof chef's knife that couldn't hold an edge at all. You usually can find much better stuff from "off brands" on Amazon for a lot less money. The reason for this is there's good factories in China making good knives and they get imported under a variety of names because of how Amazon does business. It's a fascinating side effect of Amazon requiring a US trademark to list with them now. There's articles about it, it's pretty funny.

Anyway, average people care more that stuff is cheap than that it's well made.

[vivi]

anyone that thinks there isn't good cutlery made outside of china is simply being lazy.

I'm a chef by trade and my knife roll has:

- USA made
- Switzerland made
- German made
- Thailand made
- Japan made
- Taiwan made

No chinese cutlery.

The best chef knives are japanese in my opinion.

You can get very high quality pieces in high hardness carbon or stainless with excellent geometry for a very reasonable price when you compare against what we pay for our 40th 3" folder.

There's a lot of US based makers that put out quality chef knives. Whether production companies like Spyderco or Ontario,or custom makers like LT Wright,Landi, etc.

Kitchen knives for many people often see some of the most frequent use but are probably the most neglected category by knife enthusiasts. Go figure.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

anyone that thinks there isn't good cutlery made outside of china is simply being lazy.

I'm a chef by trade and my knife roll has:

- USA made
- Switzerland made
- German made
- Thailand made
- Japan made
- Taiwan made

No chinese cutlery.

The best chef knives are japanese in my opinion.

You can get very high quality pieces in high hardness carbon or stainless with excellent geometry for a very reasonable price when you compare against what we pay for our 40th 3" folder.

There's a lot of US based makers that put out quality chef knives. Whether production companies like Spyderco or Ontario,or custom makers like LT Wright,Landi, etc.

Kitchen knives for many people often see some of the most frequent use but are probably the most neglected category by knife enthusiasts. Go figure.

Would you be pleased if Spyderco were to add one of those "sheep or beef skinner" type fixed blades that some companies have made for chefs, cooks, and butchers, or that blade shape would not get much use?

I can imagine a FRN handle or G10 and a good leather or polymer sheath with it.

[zhyla]

anyone that thinks there isn't good cutlery made outside of china is simply being lazy.

Absolutely. I meant in the context of uninformed consumers walking into a kitchen store in a mall. Anyone that googles for kitchen knife recommendations will get a lot of options that aren't Chinese made (Victorinox, etc).

You'd laugh at my steak knife set. Long story but I needed to rebuild my kitchen utensils from scratch and wasn't in a spot where I wanted to put real money into non-essentials and didn't have my knife making equipment to make my own set (it's on my list). I got a set of steak knives off Amazon that are really nice. Everything from the Amazon listing to the markings on the blade makes you think these are Japanese but they are clearly of Chinese origin (the price was the first sign). The blades are marked "JAPANESE STEEL" which may or may not be true. They're probably 8Cr like most stuff. But nice knives, and 1000% better than the serrated steak knives everyone gets in a knife set.

[vivi]

anyone that thinks there isn't good cutlery made outside of china is simply being lazy.

You'd laugh at my steak knife set. Long story but I needed to rebuild my kitchen utensils from scratch and wasn't in a spot where I wanted to put real money into non-essentials and didn't have my knife making equipment to make my own set (it's on my list). I got a set of steak knives off Amazon that are really nice. Everything from the Amazon listing to the markings on the blade makes you think these are Japanese but they are clearly of Chinese origin (the price was the first sign). The blades are marked "JAPANESE STEEL" which may or may not be true. They're probably 8Cr like most stuff. But nice knives, and 1000% better than the serrated steak knives everyone gets in a knife set.

I bought a box of 12 Kiwi 511's from Thailand for about $18 shipped. I've been using them as steak knives for the past few years. I don't even care if guests cut on ceramic plates with them, they sharpen up very easily.

[standy99]

Would you be pleased if Spyderco were to add one of those "sheep or beef skinner" type fixed blades that some companies have made for chefs, cooks, and butchers, or that blade shape would not get much use?

I can imagine a FRN handle or G10 and a good leather or polymer sheath with it.

Spyderco could not compete with any Butchers knife suppliers.
As a ex-butcher I used to wear out a boning knife or two every year.
A knife that gets sharpened twice a week doesn’t last long now matter what steel it is.
Thin blade with a bit of flex (( Dexter Russel )) at $30-40 for the win all day long.

If Spyderco made a bull nose 10” steak knife under $100 range….my ears are definitely pricked up.
But hard to compete with below at under $50 AUD

[Spyderfreek]

Spyderco's Chinese knives are generally kept at less that 10% of our sales. We continue with the Chinese models to serve the market that cannot afford our models made in Golden, Seki, Taiwan and Italy. Also, they have capacity, so we can fill in with some models that we cannot squeeze into other sources. We've also been working with the same makers for decades that really have no control over what their government does.

Counterfeits are another story. As is the low Yuan / Dollar valuation.

sal

The first Spyderco I bought was a Resilience, I definitely couldn't afford or financially justify even something like a Delica at the time. When I got and used the resilience, it totally changed who I was as a knife person, and I totally saw what made those ugly knives with a hole in the blade so **** good.

I make more money now, and as a fully grown adult, I own 9 spyders, and exclusively buy and carry Spyderco knives. The geometry, ergonomics, and high performance blade steel with world class heat treatment just makes everything else seem pointless to me.

There is definitely a place for budget Spyderco knives, and China does it well for the right price.

I won't get political but I do believe it's better that an American company have their products made in China than to not make them at all and completely lose out on the sales of that market. After all we're still putting money in American dealers pockets from the sale of Chinese knives.

[Blooze8]

I've found companies like WE/Civivi, Kizer and QSP have offered great options for competitive prices. If I wasn't as big a Spyderco fan as I am, I'd be happy with just carrying a Kizer T1 in micarta, or a QSP Pelican.

[Spyderman91]

Evening boys and girls, spyderpeople of all ages, and happy Friday!

Funny enough the thing that got me into Spyderco in the first place was when my friend gifted me a Tenacious for Christmas. I remember unwrapping it. "Oh wow Spyderco" I thought, and as I held it I immediately felt the quality. Saw the "China" engraving which had me impressed. Because at the time I generally associated goods made in China as "cheap", and the tenacious felt anything but. It was an incredible bang for the bucks at 40 dollars and I carried it a good solid 2 years before it was confiscated (my fault not TSA).

When I came back from my vacation I only had one thing on my mind: "I want an American made Spyderco". I figured I loved the Tenacious, and I wanted something made in the USA. Went to my local Sporting Good store, and handled a few different models. When the guy behind the counter whipped out the PM2 it was love at first sight. I neverr even heard of a comp lock until that point, and I was immediately impressed by the action out the box. Originally, I had the all DLC but returned it (forgot why), and got the digi camo dlc which I still have to this day 8 years later. I use it fairly frequently as it gets carried often and it still has a ton of life left.

In the end what I respected and loved most about Spyderco is they have a knife for every budget. No matter what price you pay, or where it was made. For me USA made used to matter more when I started collecting, but I don't made knives made in other locations as well. In fact my ronin katana and spyder throwers are made in China, both are very solid.

[sal]

Hi Blooze8,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Michal O]

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.

Thanx,

sal

Budget continental China knives from Spyderco are not my target, mostly because they're not as good as budget Kizer for example - they use 154CM a lot, nice micarta, solid T8 screws, including spare parts in box. I rather go with Taichung or Seki.
But maybe if your company did something in cooperation with some "famous" OEM manufacture like WE, Reate, Bestech? For example some Spyderco in titanium & vanax with superlock made by WE.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Hi All,

There seems to be a lot of thought and opinions on China, with regards to knives, especially since the latest reveal.

Some say we are no longer a leader in the industry because of the latest model offerings. (Manta 4, Buttonup, Shelter Cove, Goonie). Some say to ditch China altogether. some say build more in China, etc.

I would like for you to share your thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Preferences? etc.? Please try to avoid Partisan Politics as much as possible.

Thanx,

sal

Budget continental China knives from Spyderco are not my target, mostly because they're not as good as budget Kizer for example - they use 154CM a lot, nice micarta, solid T8 screws, including spare parts in box. I rather go with Taichung or Seki.
But maybe if your company did something in cooperation with some "famous" OEM manufacture like WE, Reate, Bestech? For example some Spyderco in titanium & vanax with superlock made by WE.

Have you considered the Spyderco Byrd line?
Yes, it is 8Cr13MoV stainless but two different friends I gifted Byrd Cara Cara 2s to said the edges are still sharp after several years, with no sharpening done. They like the secure and comfortable FRN grips and reliable back locks.

I have a Byrd Cara Cara 2 Wharncliffe and Byrd Harrier Wharncliffe, both serrated, and they are still razor sharp even after breaking down cardboard boxes. Spyderco Budget knives outdo other companies' premium knives, in my opinion.

[Michal O]

I don't like how they look.