3V or 4V Steel in a folder.

[bearfacedkiller]

I would much rather see 4V than 3V. They get lumped together a lot but they are a bit different. One is .8% carbon and one is 1.35%. 4V also has quite a bit more Vandium and Moly. I think that a 4V folder would be great.

Can I throw in a request for PSF27? It is amazing on my Bowie.

What do you like about psf27 Darby?

Not sure how to describe it. I seldom use the phrase "sticky edge" but it takes a great edge and holds it very well. Just finishing on the spyderco brown stone it gets an edge that feels coarse and grippy to the touch (it doesn't seem to want to slide across the pads of your fingers) but still push cuts sales flyers with ease and it keeps that edge well even when used for some batonning. I have knives in both D2 and CPMD2 and if I didn't know that that composition of PSF27 was the same I probably wouldn't believe it. I don't really understand the effects spray forming can have but they do seem to produce a different end result. It just seems to take an aggressive toothy edge and the edge seems to hold that aggressive bite while it dulls.

The issue with making a comparison is that I do not have any other knives that are all that similar to the Bowie. I do have quite a few hunting and bushcrafting knives but the design of all of them is so different and the steels all vary widely. I have been wanting to pick up a Junction but I am unsure if it will offer me anything that the Mules are not already offering. I also want to pick up a PSF27 Mule to compare with my other Mules but, alas, there are so many knives and so little money. :o

****, that sounds awesome, Scott Devanna from SB Specialty metal was saying the same thing about how it compares to CPM D2 and D2.
Gayle Bradley too!

Sounds like a steel I need to check out man. Its difficult to describe but I like that kind of bite at the edge

If you want to take the Bradley for a test drive just shoot me a PM. I’ll cover shipping one way if you cover it the other. I would love to get some other opinions on this one and your feedback always has value. All I would ask is that you share your opinions here.

You would be the first person to put a stone to one of my knives since my father was sharpening my knives for me in middle school. :eek: That was many moons ago! Anyway, I have seen what you can do so I completely trust you with the knife. :) You are without a doubt a more skilled sharpener than me.

[mattman]

Subbed!

[Surfingringo]

Not sure how to describe it. I seldom use the phrase "sticky edge" but it takes a great edge and holds it very well. Just finishing on the spyderco brown stone it gets an edge that feels coarse and grippy to the touch (it doesn't seem to want to slide across the pads of your fingers) but still push cuts sales flyers with ease and it keeps that edge well even when used for some batonning. I have knives in both D2 and CPMD2 and if I didn't know that that composition of PSF27 was the same I probably wouldn't believe it. I don't really understand the effects spray forming can have but they do seem to produce a different end result. It just seems to take an aggressive toothy edge and the edge seems to hold that aggressive bite while it dulls.

The issue with making a comparison is that I do not have any other knives that are all that similar to the Bowie. I do have quite a few hunting and bushcrafting knives but the design of all of them is so different and the steels all vary widely. I have been wanting to pick up a Junction but I am unsure if it will offer me anything that the Mules are not already offering. I also want to pick up a PSF27 Mule to compare with my other Mules but, alas, there are so many knives and so little money. :o

****, that sounds awesome, Scott Devanna from SB Specialty metal was saying the same thing about how it compares to CPM D2 and D2.
Gayle Bradley too!

Sounds like a steel I need to check out man. Its difficult to describe but I like that kind of bite at the edge

Wow, I might need to try some psf27. Darby, you just described what I consider perfect steel/sharpening characteristics. Takes a very high level of sharpness on medium stones without losing its tooth/aggression. Your description of psf27 sounds much like how I would describe cruwear. Do you find the two similar in their edge taking on medium stones? (medium SM rods and 1200 dmt’s For example)

I feel like the PSF27 has a little more bite at the same grit. I would love to see a folder in this. I wish there were more folks experiencing this steel so we could get more feedback. I would absolutely buy a folder in it. A Military would be great.

Awesome, I want to try it now! Are there any Spydies using psf27 besides the Bradley Bowie and the mule?

[Pelagic]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that 3v is an "all around" great steel for a folder. It would be a specialized folder for use in situations where once a hard cut is made (or during the cut) the blade may come in contact with steel, a staple, nail, screw, etc. It would be a knife that you wouldn't hesitate to pull out in ANY situation without ever worrying about a chip, and it'll sharpen incredibly easily. Of course, if you can't imagine this type of hard work, you'll say M4 Is literally better than 3v in every way. I've chipped m4 before and simply rolled 3v. Whether 4v would've chipped or rolled, no one can say.

[bearfacedkiller]

Awesome, I want to try it now! Are there any Spydies using psf27 besides the Bradley Bowie and the mule?

I think that the Junction is the only other one. I am not in love with the blade shape but I am intrigued by the very thin stock.

[Deadboxhero]

What do you like about psf27 Darby?

Not sure how to describe it. I seldom use the phrase "sticky edge" but it takes a great edge and holds it very well. Just finishing on the spyderco brown stone it gets an edge that feels coarse and grippy to the touch (it doesn't seem to want to slide across the pads of your fingers) but still push cuts sales flyers with ease and it keeps that edge well even when used for some batonning. I have knives in both D2 and CPMD2 and if I didn't know that that composition of PSF27 was the same I probably wouldn't believe it. I don't really understand the effects spray forming can have but they do seem to produce a different end result. It just seems to take an aggressive toothy edge and the edge seems to hold that aggressive bite while it dulls.

The issue with making a comparison is that I do not have any other knives that are all that similar to the Bowie. I do have quite a few hunting and bushcrafting knives but the design of all of them is so different and the steels all vary widely. I have been wanting to pick up a Junction but I am unsure if it will offer me anything that the Mules are not already offering. I also want to pick up a PSF27 Mule to compare with my other Mules but, alas, there are so many knives and so little money. :o

****, that sounds awesome, Scott Devanna from SB Specialty metal was saying the same thing about how it compares to CPM D2 and D2.
Gayle Bradley too!

Sounds like a steel I need to check out man. Its difficult to describe but I like that kind of bite at the edge

If you want to take the Bradley for a test drive just shoot me a PM. I’ll cover shipping one way if you cover it the other. I would love to get some other opinions on this one and your feedback always has value. All I would ask is that you share your opinions here.

You would be the first person to put a stone to one of my knives since my father was sharpening my knives for me in middle school. :eek: That was many moons ago! Anyway, I have seen what you can do so I completely trust you with the knife. :) You are without a doubt a more skilled sharpener than me.

Wow Darby, I'm in.

I'll slap a few finishes on her at describe what its like, and send it back with a shiny edge :D

Very excited

Shawn

[Deadboxhero]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that 3v is an "all around" great steel for a folder. It would be a specialized folder for use in situations where once a hard cut is made (or during the cut) the blade may come in contact with steel, a staple, nail, screw, etc. It would be a knife that you wouldn't hesitate to pull out in ANY situation without ever worrying about a chip, and it'll sharpen incredibly easily. Of course, if you can't imagine this type of hard work, you'll say M4 Is literally better than 3v in every way. I've chipped m4 before and simply rolled 3v. Whether 4v would've chipped or rolled, no one can say.

From making knives out 4v I'd say you would be surprised at the capabilites of 4v. I'm excited that Spyderco is going to be bringing that steel to the public with a killer Geometry with Ankersons knife this fall

[The Mastiff]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that 3v is an "all around" great steel for a folder.

I'll make that argument. To me it's a great all around any knife steel. I feel the same about Cruwear. Run at rc 61ish it's not all that much different wear resistance as VG 10 to 154cm almost up to S30V. That is plenty of wear resistance for me. It is also both corrosion resistant, tough enough and has good edge stability for everything I can do that I can do with the 3 above and maybe better. It slots in very well attribute wise IMO.

Joe

[Pelagic]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that 3v is an "all around" great steel for a folder. It would be a specialized folder for use in situations where once a hard cut is made (or during the cut) the blade may come in contact with steel, a staple, nail, screw, etc. It would be a knife that you wouldn't hesitate to pull out in ANY situation without ever worrying about a chip, and it'll sharpen incredibly easily. Of course, if you can't imagine this type of hard work, you'll say M4 Is literally better than 3v in every way. I've chipped m4 before and simply rolled 3v. Whether 4v would've chipped or rolled, no one can say.

From making knives out 4v I'd say you would be surprised at the capabilites of 4v. I'm excited that Spyderco is going to be bringing that steel to the public with a killer Geometry with Ankersons knife this fall

I'm very impressed with this knife but I don't think 4v's performance makes 3v a worse choice in EVERY situation.

To the OP: told ya. This won't change.

The Mastiff, I hear you and understand.

[Deadboxhero]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that 3v is an "all around" great steel for a folder. It would be a specialized folder for use in situations where once a hard cut is made (or during the cut) the blade may come in contact with steel, a staple, nail, screw, etc. It would be a knife that you wouldn't hesitate to pull out in ANY situation without ever worrying about a chip, and it'll sharpen incredibly easily. Of course, if you can't imagine this type of hard work, you'll say M4 Is literally better than 3v in every way. I've chipped m4 before and simply rolled 3v. Whether 4v would've chipped or rolled, no one can say.

From making knives out 4v I'd say you would be surprised at the capabilites of 4v. I'm excited that Spyderco is going to be bringing that steel to the public with a killer Geometry with Ankersons knife this fall

I'm very impressed with this knife but I don't think 4v's performance makes 3v a worse choice in EVERY situation.

To the OP: told ya. This won't change.

The Mastiff, I hear you and understand.

What can 3v do that 4v can't on a folder?

[Pelagic]

I don't think anyone has ever argued that 3v is an "all around" great steel for a folder. It would be a specialized folder for use in situations where once a hard cut is made (or during the cut) the blade may come in contact with steel, a staple, nail, screw, etc. It would be a knife that you wouldn't hesitate to pull out in ANY situation without ever worrying about a chip, and it'll sharpen incredibly easily. Of course, if you can't imagine this type of hard work, you'll say M4 Is literally better than 3v in every way. I've chipped m4 before and simply rolled 3v. Whether 4v would've chipped or rolled, no one can say.

From making knives out 4v I'd say you would be surprised at the capabilites of 4v. I'm excited that Spyderco is going to be bringing that steel to the public with a killer Geometry with Ankersons knife this fall

I'm very impressed with this knife but I don't think 4v's performance makes 3v a worse choice in EVERY situation.

To the OP: told ya. This won't change.

The Mastiff, I hear you and understand.

What can 3v do that 4v can't on a folder?

I already explained it. Hard cuts in situations where you could hit an obstruction (hard) that would cause damage to the blade. Less likely to chip.

[Deadboxhero]

From making knives out 4v I'd say you would be surprised at the capabilites of 4v. I'm excited that Spyderco is going to be bringing that steel to the public with a killer Geometry with Ankersons knife this fall

I'm very impressed with this knife but I don't think 4v's performance makes 3v a worse choice in EVERY situation.

To the OP: told ya. This won't change.

The Mastiff, I hear you and understand.

What can 3v do that 4v can't on a folder?

I already explained it. Hard cuts in situations where you could hit an obstruction (hard) that would cause damage to the blade. Less likely to chip.

So you experience chipping with 4v?

[Pelagic]

I'm very impressed with this knife but I don't think 4v's performance makes 3v a worse choice in EVERY situation.

To the OP: told ya. This won't change.

The Mastiff, I hear you and understand.

What can 3v do that 4v can't on a folder?

I already explained it. Hard cuts in situations where you could hit an obstruction (hard) that would cause damage to the blade. Less likely to chip.

So you experience chipping with 4v?

You're right. I'm wrong.

I don't have time to argue over something so trivial.

I may not make knives but I have owned several in both steels and do a lot more than slice tomatoes.

[Pelagic]

I do have a question though (for anyone).

What does 52100 have over 3v?

I could see ease of sharpening, but 3v is one of the easiest steels to sharpen that I have ever encountered.

[steelcity16]

What can 3v do that 4v can't on a folder?

Give me a Native LW in both steels so I can test them out and tell you! :D I think it would be cool to do something like a limited edition sprint or flash run set of Native LWs to appease the "tough steel" nuts. The Native LW is perfect since it is cheap and plenty tough. Its an economic way to try them all without breaking the bank, and still get an amazingly solid lightweight folder you can carry anywhere. One run each of Cruwear, 3V, and 4V in Red, White, and Blue FRN respectively. Release the sets (sold single or as a set) on a holiday like Memorial Day or 4th of July to celebrate America and our troops since the Native is the model sent overseas. Then we could all test out and compare these steels apples to apples and draw conclusions of what works and what doesnt for future folders in these steels. If its a big hit do it again the following year with the Manix LW.

[Deadboxhero]

What can 3v do that 4v can't on a folder?

I already explained it. Hard cuts in situations where you could hit an obstruction (hard) that would cause damage to the blade. Less likely to chip.

So you experience chipping with 4v?

You're right. I'm wrong.

I don't have time to argue over something so trivial.

I may not make knives but I have owned several in both steels and do a lot more than slice tomatoes.

What happened? did the 4v chip? what was the test? Share with us

[dogrunner]

A little aggressive there ?
All he said is he likes 3V, trusts it to resist the bumps and bruises his knives encounter, and finds it a good balance for his needs. I like it for the same reasons. I have 2 customs in 4V (including an Ankerson/Sanders camp knife, which is completely awesome) and a Van4e (ZT fixed blade). I love that steel too, but the reputation is less corrosion resistance than 3V. Both are great. I also love Cruwear for the same reasons.
Not everyone spends tons of time "testing" steels, some of us just use them. I enjoy all the reviews and test uses, but we all have our own experiences in actual chore duties that anyone would just dismiss as anecdotal or anomalous if they did not agree with a preconception.
Anyway, keep it chill.

[Pelagic]

I already explained it. Hard cuts in situations where you could hit an obstruction (hard) that would cause damage to the blade. Less likely to chip.

So you experience chipping with 4v?

You're right. I'm wrong.

I don't have time to argue over something so trivial.

I may not make knives but I have owned several in both steels and do a lot more than slice tomatoes.

What happened? did the 4v chip? what was the test? Share with us

Yes, I have had a few small chips in my 4v knives over the years, never in a 3v one. The chips are long sharpened out now and most of them I've sold. Imagine literally wacking your apex against rusty steel like the frame of a car or a boat trailer. I work in settings where that can happen after making a cut. I've seen it both ways (4v and 3v). But I officially forfeit this debate. I am wrong.

The one thing I was right about is what I stated in the first response to this thread.

[Deadboxhero]

Now now boys, just asking questions because I'm naturally curious and I always want to know how and why.

No wrong answers, just wanted to know where the information was coming from

Thanks for sharing

[Bodog]

So you experience chipping with 4v?

You're right. I'm wrong.

I don't have time to argue over something so trivial.

I may not make knives but I have owned several in both steels and do a lot more than slice tomatoes.

What happened? did the 4v chip? what was the test? Share with us

Yes, I have had a few small chips in my 4v knives over the years, never in a 3v one. The chips are long sharpened out now and most of them I've sold. Imagine literally wacking your apex against rusty steel like the frame of a car or a boat trailer. I work in settings where that can happen after making a cut. I've seen it both ways (4v and 3v). But I officially forfeit this debate. I am wrong.

The one thing I was right about is what I stated in the first response to this thread.

Hey dude, for what it's worth I'm a huge V4E/M4 fan. I've had some 4V with less than stellar heat treatment chip pretty easily. I didn't heat treat it and the guy who did may or may not have known what he was doing. I speculate that he burned the steel, i don't know. Or maybe there are differences between V4E and 4V that don't show up on paper. Anyway, it chipped way easier than i thought it should have. Never had a problem with V4E or M4 at relatively high hardness and I'm not easy on my knives. They seem to show far better stability overall than even relatively high hardness 52100 in that the amount of chipping, rolling, and denting was much less pronounced, nevermind raw wear resistance.

I can see both sides. Maybe the 4V you've tried wasnt the best? Maybe the 4V being advocated by Deadboxhero was really well done? I think there may be more to the story than simply 3V having better edges than 4V. Or maybe not. Neither steel is better than the other and we're all free to have our own opinion. Mine is that i can't stand S30V even though many people would say I'm crazy for not liking it. Either way, I'd like to see more 3V, 4V, etc., but most people would rather buy stainless so I'm hanging out waiting patiently for knives more to my liking. I would kind of like to hear who made the 4V you didn't quite like, how it was heat treated if known, and how it had been sharpened just for my own knowledge.



.....
I'd like to see more reversed serrations. I hope i don't sound crazy for saying that. I'd like the plain edge at the heel and the serrations at the belly. Some might think I'm really odd for saying that.