New pivot system

[LowTEC]

after testing with M2's bushing system, I rather to have the good old washer system

[defenestrate]

If anyone is curious and wants to comment on how their M2s compare to mine, I made a quick video of how freely it swings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwAeZpANXE

mine is the same (and I consider this a good thing) - if you compress the lock mechanism on other lock types, the detent will also lessen to the point that the blade will have very little resistance to inertial influence. try squeezing a midlock hard, you will see that a similar effect is found. It is simply more pronounced on the M2 due to the complete engagement/disengagement of the lock from the rotating blade assembly and the top-notch pivots that keep it opening smoothly under harsh conditions for long periods of time. If it bothers you, you can always impede the motion of the pivot by gunking it up with something (tightening the pivot screw does not have this effect on the M2 IIRC)..

[sal]

Hi JimP,

Australia does have its own problems with laws, much like the UK. While the Manix2 might not serve the Aussie market, it does serve many other markets effectively. That's why we make so many different designs.

We make special designs for the UK market and we're currently working with our Australian distributor to create "Oz friendly" designs for which customs will approve.

sal

[speedmaster]

Very interesting discussion, thanks. Do we know if Spyderco has adjusted any of their tolerances or machining methods for this or other models since it was introduced?

For what it's worth, I just got my new Manix 2 from Amazon 2 weeks ago and there doesn't seem to be any play, if there is it's so minute as to be irrelevant.

[SaturnNyne]

mine is the same (and I consider this a good thing) - if you compress the lock mechanism on other lock types, the detent will also lessen to the point that the blade will have very little resistance to inertial influence. try squeezing a midlock hard, you will see that a similar effect is found. It is simply more pronounced on the M2 due to the complete engagement/disengagement of the lock from the rotating blade assembly and the top-notch pivots that keep it opening smoothly under harsh conditions for long periods of time. If it bothers you, you can always impede the motion of the pivot by gunking it up with something (tightening the pivot screw does not have this effect on the M2 IIRC)..

Thanks for the comparison. Just to clarify, is yours equally loose in the way it swings but still without play on lockup, or does it have the same play but you're not bothered by it? I'm curious because the only two types I've encountered are tight but flickable and free-swinging with play.

Quite so on the midlock, I'm able to flick my Ladybug and Pacific open and closed by depressing the lock. I'm totally fine with this because a) using a midlock like this requires a slightly awkward grip that clearly isn't the intent of the design and wouldn't be the opening method of choice were it used as a weapon, b) lockbacks are familiar and most anyone examining one would probably not even seriously think of using the lock bar for anything but unlocking as intended, c) even when relieved of detaining pressure like this they still require an added flick to open fully and quickly (the Pacific doesn't even begin to open under just gravity), and d) in the Ladybug's case, it's just too small too attract much scrutiny. I consider my big, SE, black-handled, jimped-up-the-wazoo M2 to be a different case because, frankly, it's a mean-looking knife and will be perceived as a weapon by many. The fact that it both looks like it's intended as a weapon and drops open when a conveniently mounted catch is released makes it just too risky for me, given that the definition of a gravity knife in my area is "any ... knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever." By that definition, even a tight M2 or Axis knife could be considered questionable here, but for me it's the clear similarity to the gravity definition that makes it more than I'm comfortable risking.

I'm not sure if you're completely serious about gunking up the pivot to impede movement, but I actually did briefly consider possibilities there. However, I don't want to try solving the issue by gumming up the workings and I think the tolerances in mine are large enough that removing all grease would make little difference since there's so little pressure being put on the washers. When I get a chance, I think I'm going to experiment with thicker washers that fit around the diameter of the bearing or the filing method that we already know works.

And just a warning to anyone else considering going that route: W&R did warn me that opening it up myself could void warranty, if that's a concern to you.

Do we know if Spyderco has adjusted any of their tolerances or machining methods for this or other models since it was introduced?

For what it's worth, I just got my new Manix 2 from Amazon 2 weeks ago and there doesn't seem to be any play, if there is it's so minute as to be irrelevant.

If you aren't able to immediately notice very definite play, I would guess you lucked out and got a flawless one. When they're done right they are wonderfully solid—enjoy your good fortune!

As for adjustment of the machining tolerances, the first loose sample I encountered comes from early August of last year (so it's one of the first ones) and the second is a Carpenter sprint (the very latest). Two knives isn't enough of a sampling to make any sweeping statements about manufacturing trends, but it does make me pessimistic about improvements so far. Anyone want to start a poll of owners to get some actual numbers on what percentages of them are rock solid and not? :confused: (I'm too lazy, myself. :o )