Best Law Enforcement knife?

[eldiablojoe]

Thanks Zhyla, since you have never heard of it, it must never occur.

While I have options for many situations (a HAK for slashing, a dope knife-that's a single purpose utility, can't be spreading sticky tar heroin on all your other gear or evidence- a leatherman for basic tools, a Glock, a taser, and an asp for other purposes, the thing I don't have a good tool in the bag for is when arm motion (space, injury, backhand orientation, etc.) is limited or restricted making slashing motions ineffective, I do not have a good solid option for utility cutting needs, that might also be a good stabber should that ever be necessary.

The HAK is excellent for slicing, and it's other features are unmatched for retention (the finger capsule ensures it stays in your hand regardless of the slipperiness of the situation, or one is stunned in the solar plexus or head, or for any other reason that one would involuntarily open one's hands and drop a knife). It would be an excellent gripping option for a stabbing motion as one's hand would not run up the blade, however the blade is not conducive to stabbing motions.

Honestly, what your opinion of my needs are is irrelevant. I am the shopper here, the ultimate consumer of the product, and the Spyderco customer laying down the cash. What do you care about the reality of my needs, as long as I perceive them as needs is all that matters.

I do appreciate your votes of confidence in the Endura and the Delica. It is obvious you know a lot about the products, and it is from people just like you from whom I hoped to receive input. I just did not expect my wants checklist to be belittled. I like them both. I am just hoping to find something in between their sizes with some other features I would like, such as the black blade, a combo blade, maybe even an emerson opener, and a rear Endura-style lock release.

Thank you for turning me on to this knife, Bearfaced, http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=178 is in the lead for being my first choice.

[Johnnie1801]

bit pricey but how about a black Southard?

[Liquid Cobra]

I've never heard of any LEO stabbing anyone. As far as I know knives aren't part of the training and they have many other options on their belt. Sorry, I think the OP's problem statement is 100% bogus.

Pretty much any utility oriented knife will do. The cops I know don't carry anything special, a Delica or Endura most often (or normal folders from cheaper brands).

I was thinking this same thing.

[jmh58]

My son (Pittsburgh City Dective) carries a BUCK and my daughter (Hanover Twp Police) carries a black frn Delica.. John :)

[Blerv]

I would get something innocuous like a Dragonfly2 and a heavy flashlight. It's a segue from your request but officers have a Batman utility belt full of more legal and physiologically capable ways to immobilize someone.

Sorry, I would give better feedback but like some are confused by the nature of the request. I would spend more time in BJJ and boxing classes and less looking for something stabby. If all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail...and in this case the nail might be someone with a couple dozen stab wounds that fought for minutes until the news crew arrived.

[eldiablojoe]

bit pricey but how about a black Southard?

Johnnie1801, thanks for showing me the Southard. It MSRP's at $440, while the Native's MSRP is $149. It is somewhere between the Endura and the Police model which is larger than I'd like. It is a beautiful piece of goods though. Maybe someday when I have that kind of cash to play with.

JMH58, I have a buck that I carried (#110) for a couple of years in the '80's, but it became too heavy and was relegated to a glove-box tool. The H1 looks good too.

Blerv, I do have a good solid Streamlight with drop in and a Malkoff Devices 1100 Lum torch for my night shift rotations, but i am primarily on day shift these days, so I get by with my belted Surefire 6P with a Malkoff drop in.

[eldiablojoe]

Sorry, I would give better feedback but like some are confused by the nature of the request. I would spend more time in BJJ and boxing classes and less looking for something stabby. If all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail...and in this case the nail might be someone with a couple dozen stab wounds that fought for minutes until the news crew arrived.

Thanks Blerv I see your point. Perhaps I was just hoping for direction to a product that would be what I was looking for, and not expecting someone not walking in my shoes to wonder why I wanted such a product. If I was asking about Italian sports cars on a Ferrari forum, I would not expect people to start preaching to me about speeding on city roads and questioning why I would want something so fast. Perhaps I am just being over sensitive.

[MattM68]

I really appreciate all of y'all's input and advice. I would like to know more about the lateral back lock on the para2, and what do you guys (MattM68 and LC Kid) like so much about the Police model?

I really do like the combo blade because it lets me use the plain edge for finer detail work like cutting fingerprint tape and evidence seals, but the serrations are very useful for cutting people out of cars (Seatbelt webbing) and heavier cutting needs like cardboard. Otherwise, I'd really be all over that Bayou Shooter - even though I've never used or tried the Emerson opener, it sure sounds like it work really well...

Argghhh, so many choices, lol!!!!

I know, it's really hard to decide on a new Spyderco. :) But to answer your question, the lock on the Paramilitary 2(compression lock) is extremely easy to use/close with one hand, deploys very fast, and is one of the strongest locks around. I find it useful to be able to close the knife with one hand, and still hold the object I cut in my other hand. The police model was designed for law enforcement in mind, and is a great knife. The police 3 with G-10 is a big improvement over the SS handled version.
I definitely understand why you want the Combo edge, but if you have confidence in your sharpening skills, a plain edge will have no problems cutting a seatbelt or cardboard. Whatever you choose, I'm sure you'll love it. :)

[Johnnie1801]

Johnnie1801, thanks for showing me the Southard. It MSRP's at $440, while the Native's MSRP is $149. It is somewhere between the Endura and the Police model which is larger than I'd like. It is a beautiful piece of goods though. Maybe someday when I have that kind of cash to play with.

The southard is currently on offer on massdrop for $199 +$10 for the black version

You might want to look at a Stretch, slightly smaller than an Endura

[MacLaren]

One of your main concerns in law enforcement as far as a knife goes will be cutting a seat belt and last ditch self protection.
Let that be a guide in choosing.
And if your gonna have to cut a seat belt, you'll want something that means business.
I think this is what your after?

[Fancier]

Thanks Blerv I see your point. Perhaps I was just hoping for direction to a product that would be what I was looking for, and not expecting someone not walking in my shoes to wonder why I wanted such a product. If I was asking about Italian sports cars on a Ferrari forum, I would not expect people to start preaching to me about speeding on city roads and questioning why I would want something so fast. Perhaps I am just being over sensitive.

Well, a lot of us think of our knives as tools and not weapons. Many of us live in fear of having the cops called on us when we pull a knife to open our mail.
Ignoring the whole issue of mall ninjas, a few of us that have been in knife fights have sort of encouraged some of the rest of us to find a less messy way to die.
None of that has a single thing to do with your situation (unless you arrest me for opening my mail :D ) but it might go a little way towards explaining some of the reactions that you encountered. :o

[bearfacedkiller]

The para2 deploys much easier for me than the native and the blade has more reach as I tend to always use the choil on the native and use it randomly on the para2. The native encourages me to choke up on the blade. I am able to get an amazing grip on both due to ergonomics but this is with the forward grip on the native and the rear grip on the para2. For me personally the native is an amazing backup to the para2. For that reason I still think you would like a blk/blk para2 combo edge. It is available with digicam scales and a black blade.

The 30/70 combo edge on the native is super cool though. I never thought you needed much plain edge on a combo edge. That ratio looks practical. The native is smaller and lighter.

[Blerv]

Thanks Blerv I see your point. Perhaps I was just hoping for direction to a product that would be what I was looking for, and not expecting someone not walking in my shoes to wonder why I wanted such a product. If I was asking about Italian sports cars on a Ferrari forum, I would not expect people to start preaching to me about speeding on city roads and questioning why I would want something so fast. Perhaps I am just being over sensitive.

Sorry for the soap-box rant. I would have been less poignant with more information.

The P'Kal was designed for undercover narcotics officers. People facing danger from some of the baddest people on the planet. The Civilian was designed for officers (also the Spyderco Police) as a side-arm in a similar way. The Matriarch was designed to protect women in Africa facing the real problem of rape in their villages. There are a number of high-performance Spyderco knives which thrive in tactical or defensive roles. The Military was designed as I recall when someone asked Sal what hey would give to a son/daughter serving in the armed forces. That doesn't even mention the various restricted knives Spyderco makes.

To be fair, you asked for a knife with an olive drab handle and a black blade that's easy to hang on-to when it gets bloody. That paints a far different picture than an officer looking for a gun retention aid or something to jog with while not on duty. It's certainly different than blipping the throttle on a V12 and getting a speeding ticket.

[wrdwrght]

Since being stabby isn't in the training, how about a black Assist (C79BBK) to break autoglass and cut seatbelts; you know, "to protect and serve".

[Laethageal]

I'm no expert in armed combat, but I remember reading some post being very favorable to the Yojimbo 2.

[MacLaren]

Since being stabby isn't in the training, how about a black Assist (C79BBK) to break autoglass and cut seatbelts; you know, "to protect and serve".

Yes. Excellent choice.

[LC Kid]

Hi eldiablo!

what do you guys (MattM68 and LC Kid) like so much about the Police model?

I'm really not a Spyderco Police guy. I'm an EDC guy. I find the Police too large, too heavy and quite slippery (unless the G10 version) for EDC.

But as LEO blade it has these clear advantages:

- Large blade = Lots of leverage, specially when it's full SE.

- Fantastic slicer, no matter what.

- Awesome grip = G10 version

- Easy to find/replace when you lose or break it.

[Doc Dan]

I am not law enforcement, but I used to work rescue/EMT and the police rarely had to stab anyone, but I know of some who have had to do so. The more likely event, unless the OP is undercover, is rescue or cutting someone out of a car before the ambulance arrives. A knife with a good, strong lock and a solid sharp point would do nicely. The Manix or Sage series would be nice, and the Native 5 would be worth looking at. The Delica has a too delicate tip, as does the Endura. I would not recommend a knife without liners as they will flex more and may not work properly. Yes, I know a knife is not a prying or torking tool, but, in such extreme situations this is a likely occurance.

[Tdog]

You might check with Stag Arms to see if they have any of the Green G10 Manix with DLC black coating. These are really great, very strong knives. I got one for my son who is a deputy. He loves it.

[djjinksy]

I'm a huge Spyderco junkie, and I'm going to +1 the Paramilitary 2 recommendation. It'll do everything you need it to do, and more.

Now if I may be so bold as to betray my Spydie heritage for a moment, I think you should go take a look at the Gerber 06 Automatic with aluminum handles. I own one of these, and it is a TANK. I don't EDC it very often because it is so heavy, but when sh** is going down, this is what I reach for. This knife was designed to replace the Ka-Bar fighting knives for elite military groups, and dang does it perform.