Is this a FAKE Buck Knife from China?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-BUCK-2008-F ... 1c43237b7c


As soon as I saw this, it shouted "Fake" to me. The overall shape and structure does not seem to be the standard Buck fixed blade lines.

[phillipsted]

Yup. I overheard some of the Buck Collectors Club complaining about the flood of Chinese knockoffs at the Blade Show this year. It's getting really bad - and the Chinese don't even bother to copy a Buck design anymore. That is the case with the knife you point out - they just designed something that looked cool and stamped "Buck" on the tang and shipped it out.

Something has to give. This is piracy.

TedP

[SpyderNut]

What a sham... I mean, shame. :rolleyes:

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Wow that is horrible. Buck is one of the best knife companies in my opinion and the knock off piracy is so lame and wrong.

Question: Do you all think the Chinese themselves use these cheapo knock offs for every day use and for hunting and sporting, or do they have their own particular brands? Also, do you think there are Chinese custom knife makers in China who make hand forged and hand made knives that are quality steel?

[The Deacon]

Wow that is horrible. Buck is one of the best knife companies in my opinion and the knock off piracy is so lame and wrong.

Question: Do you all think the Chinese themselves use these cheapo knock offs for every day use and for hunting and sporting, or do they have their own particular brands? Also, do you think there are Chinese custom knife makers in China who make hand forged and hand made knives that are quality steel?

Have you been blissfully unaware until now of the tidal wave of counterfeit knives from China that have been appearing on eBay for the past few years, or do you consider fake Bucks worse than Chinese fakes of brands like Spyderco and Chris Reeve Knives?

As for the other, it's only a guess, but I suspect they sell some fakes and some "home" brands there and that some of the home brands may include copies of US or European designs in their lineup. As for customs, I'm sure there are craftsmen capable of turning out quality custom knives, just not sure if there's enough of a market for them in China.

[phillipsted]

As for the other, it's only a guess, but I suspect they sell some fakes and some "home" brands there and that some of the home brands may include copies of US or European designs in their lineup. As for customs, I'm sure there are craftsmen capable of turning out quality custom knives, just not sure if there's enough of a market for them in China.

"Branding" is a powerful consumer motivator. Just look at all the knockoff fashion accessories you see on the street these days (e.g., Gucci belts, Chanel purses, Hermes scarves). People are buying these to affiliate themselves with the brand - brands they probably couldn't afford if they were authentic...

The problem with knives is a bit different. The difference between a fake PM2 and a real PM2 is a few bucks, not a few hundred bucks - but the principle is the same... I guess Sal should also look at the positive side of the equation as well - plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery! Everyone loves a Spyderco! :cool:

TedP

[Donut]

Aren't all knives from china Fake Buck knives? =)

[palehorse]

The sad thing is that ebay doesn't really care if they help sellers sell counterfeits at all.
I helped a knife designer fight with ebay. We sent them every type of proof imaginable. If you are not the big company itself contacting ebay, or a lawyer for the knife designer, you are out of luck.
All they see is money coming in. Until the presence of the law stands between them and their income and forces them to do the right thing, they will not.
Their VERO program is largely worthless. It just gives them an opportunity to oust a seller from time to time in order to give the illusion that they care.
They do not.

[Doc Dan]

Over here in SE Asia, a Buck 119 that sells for very little in the USA would command a price of $500 to $600 USD so knock offs are a good business. You can actually buy Gucci bags, Rolex watches (with Seiko movements) and etc. very cheaply as they are all knock offs but look like the real thing. You can buy the latest movies for $80 USD or a pirated copy for $1 USD.

[razorsharp]

Spyderedgeforever Carson tech lab is a Chinese custom Knifr company... Only Chinese customs I know of

[Greg Walker]

Well, it's a two edged sword.

As long as U.S. companies and custom makers to to China to have their knives made - and a ton of them do, as we know - for the specific purpose of low labor/cost/production advantages - these same folks will see their knives knocked off by the same people who they do official business with.

[The Deacon]

Well, it's a two edged sword.

As long as U.S. companies and custom makers to to China to have their knives made - and a ton of them do, as we know - for the specific purpose of low labor/cost/production advantages - these same folks will see their knives knocked off by the same people who they do official business with.

Sorry Mr. Walker, but that's simply not true. The Chinese counterfeit knives, and other products, by makers that have never outsourced production there. Chris Reeve Knives would be a prime example but at least one model from every knife company has been counterfeited there, whether or not the company that makes it ever had knives made in China.

The problem is twofold, one huge part being that "intellectual property" is a strictly Western concept. So, by Chinese standards, or Japanese for that matter, copying something is perfectly acceptable. Not sure how we convinced the Japanese that it was in their interest not to do so, but sixty years ago they most definitely believed that imitation was more lucrative than innovation. Another part is that our government, and ICE in particular, would rather spend it's time and energy harassing American companies than inspecting shipments coming in from China. I'm sure the fact we owe them huge sums of money has no bearing on that.

[asmith001]

Over here in SE Asia, a Buck 119 that sells for very little in the USA would command a price of $500 to $600 USD.

I have a Buck 119 I'd like to sell you... for half price. :D

[Greg Walker]

Sorry, is true.

When you go to a manufacturing resource like China to have a design made - you can (or should) expect that it can (and likely will if successful) be knocked off by someone else in China.

When you go to someone like China, whose labor and manufacturing is far cheaper than in the US and often times Western Europe (i.e. Boker) it is because there is increased profit to be made by doing so and SOME may hope to stave off further or initial copying by making friends doing so -

See this link - http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... e-in-china

Japan is very spendy for quality specialty cutlery and has been for some time; Taiwan was an alternative until they, too, got their act together and became more efficient and high quality (i.e. expensive). We can expect Vietnam to be the next (if it isn't already) happening place for knife manufacturing and an alternative to China.

As for China sourced knock off of Chris Reeve - see https://youtu.be/yaYpQ-9pS6Q

Bill Harsey has likewise been knocked off in China - http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/for ... hp?t=44101

And so it goes/

Sorry Mr. Walker, but that's simply not true. The Chinese counterfeit knives, and other products, by makers that have never outsourced production there. Chris Reeve Knives would be a prime example but at least one model from every knife company has been counterfeited there, whether or not the company that makes it ever had knives made in China.

The problem is twofold, one huge part being that "intellectual property" is a strictly Western concept. So, by Chinese standards, or Japanese for that matter, copying something is perfectly acceptable. Not sure how we convinced the Japanese that it was in their interest not to do so, but sixty years ago they most definitely believed that imitation was more lucrative than innovation. Another part is that our government, and ICE in particular, would rather spend it's time and energy harassing American companies than inspecting shipments coming in from China. I'm sure the fact we owe them huge sums of money has no bearing on that.

[The Deacon]

Sorry, is true.

When you go to a manufacturing resource like China to have a design made - you can (or should) expect that it can (and likely will if successful) be knocked off by someone else in China.

When you go to someone like China, whose labor and manufacturing is far cheaper than in the US and often times Western Europe (i.e. Boker) it is because there is increased profit to be made by doing so and SOME may hope to stave off further or initial copying by making friends doing so -

See this link - http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... e-in-china

Japan is very spendy for quality specialty cutlery and has been for some time; Taiwan was an alternative until they, too, got their act together and became more efficient and high quality (i.e. expensive). We can expect Vietnam to be the next (if it isn't already) happening place for knife manufacturing and an alternative to China.

As for China sourced knock off of Chris Reeve - see https://youtu.be/yaYpQ-9pS6Q

Bill Harsey has likewise been knocked off in China - http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/for ... hp?t=44101

And so it goes/

You obviously missed my point, which was that American, European, and Japanese manufacturers and custom makers can expect to have their wares knocked off in China regardless of whether they've ever had knives made there. Your own links to the CRK and Harsey knockoff videos prove that.

You may argue that it's easier for them to counterfeit products that are made there, but most of the Chinese counterfeits are of models that are produced elsewhere, so that argument, while probably true, is of minor consequence and can create the misleading impression of a cause and effect relationship since the models that are made in China would almost certainly be counterfeited there even if they were made elsewhere.

The fact that Spyderco has the Tenacious made by "Chinese company A" does not make it any easier for "Chinese company B" to produce counterfeits of the Military or any other model not manufactured there and the fact that the genuine Tenacious is made in China neither increases or decreases the chances of a Chinese counterfeit Tenacious.

As for the motives of companies that do have models made there, I'm sure they are the same as the motives of any company that wants to stay competitive in a market where the majority of consumers consider price a more important consideration than quality, durability, or national pride.