Y u no cpm-m4?

[wrdwrght]

Oh please, no coatings.

My ESEE fixed blades (rust-prone 1095) are coated. Batoning makes that coating ugly **** fast. Of course, they are "survival knives", and when you're surviving who cares what the blade looks like.

But I wouldn't want to hide an admired steel (patina'd or not) that I EDC.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I don't find that M4 rusts very readily at all...it will discolour and patina...but actual "rust" just doesn't seem to happen. If you have corrosive sweat, or live near the ocean...then maybe. For everyone else, a little wipe down should be fine. If you like to neglect your knives, its not the steel for you....

On the other hand...those of us that like a really great all round steel that has great edge retention and toughness...M4 is a really great steel.


And no coatings. Not ever, not on any steel.

[NoFair]

CPM-M4 PM2 with coyote G10 handles would be sweet. Bead blasted clip please :D

[DougC-3]

CPM-M4 PM2 with coyote G10 handles would be sweet. Bead blasted clip please :D

+1!
(Great thread!)

[FCM415]

I'd love to see more M4 also. For the love of God, UNCOATED please. For those concerned with darkening/patina, applying Flitz and something like Ballistol helps a lot.

...And if it's a PM2, please make more than 300. A lot more. Please.

[Strong-Dog]

I'd love to see more M4 also. For the love of God, UNCOATED please. For those concerned with darkening/patina, applying Flitz and something like Ballistol helps a lot.

...And if it's a PM2, please make more than 300. A lot more. Please.

This ^^^

[jackknifeh]

I think coating an M4 blade would be a bad idea also. The reason is if you want it less reflective you can force a patina. M4 is not the easiest steel to force a patina on as many have said. But it can be done. This should satisfy the people who might like a coated blade. And for the people who don't want a coated blade M4 is easy to protect with a corrosion fighting product. I use Tuf-Glide which makes it almost impossible to force a patina on an M4 blade for at least 2 or 3 months after applying it. My opinion is based on very little experience in forcing a patina. But with M4 being the way it is it seems capable of making both groups (yes coating vs no coating) happy. Great blade steel. If it could be an option on different models like ZDP-189 is that would be the best idea from a customer's angle. If you wanted a Bradley Folder but don't buy one because it doesn't have a stainless steel blade an option in VG-10 would be great.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

We had some limbs fall in the yard. I used a sawzall to get them into 4' length but the smaller branches (3/8" or less) I cut off with my GB. Anything in the 1/4" diameter size I could easily cut them off in one slice. I held the edge against the limb with the handle a little in front so when I pushed the angle caused a little slicing instead of a straight push cut. I cut a bunch of them. Prior to using the GB I had sharpened it to a 8k stone and stropped with a 15k CBN, soft leather strop followed by a bare kangaroo strop. So the knife cutting the small limbs was no surprise. I didn't count how many I cut but after a bunch I still couldn't feel any difference in cutting difficulty. I came back into the house and still could slice phone book paper with ease. Now when paying close attention I can "feel" the area that I used to cut (center of the blade). But to "feel" it I need to slice the paper slowly and pay attention as the location on the edge that is cutting changes from heel to belly. I hadn't cut anything with the belly/tip section. What this showed me based on this example is that M4 holds the razor sharp, smooth edge very very well. The center of the blade still shaves arm hair although it doesn't pop them off like the belly still does.

Summation: IMO M4 takes a razor smooth edge and holds the razor smooth edge very well. That would indicate that the slightly duller "working edge" would last just about forever when using M4.

Blade steels like VG-10 and better in one way or another have been called super steels. Based on that and how others have described steels like 110v and others I'd call them super super steels or something. I have not tried any of these steels except ZDP-189 and M4. I think they should be considered super super steels and I like M4 better than ZDP. I would like to try the ZDP but the only knife I have now with ZDP is my Manbug. I'm going to go cut some more with my Sage4 to see how S30V does I think. I know this isn't very scientific or all that accurate but it shows me enough to know if I think a blade steel has good edge retention or not. I have three categories of edge retention I think. Unacceptable, acceptable and super acceptable. 8Cr13MoV and VG10 are in the acceptable group even though there is a difference in those two. S30v and XP get into the super acceptable group. ZDP and M4 I guess are in the super acceptable group also even though the edge retention may be better than XHP. So even though I just mentioned 4 blade steels that are different in edge retention I classified them into two different classes. My demands on accuracy is not very specific. Bad or good or very good is close enough.

I just decided I'm not going to test S30V. I already know how it will do. Why test something after I already know the results just to compare the performance to M4?

Jack

PS
All this was to explain why I would like to see CPM-M4 as an optional steel for different models of Spyderco's.

[PayneTrain]

I recently tested my GB metal vs metal. I wanted to cut through a small bit of steel, and thought "well they can't call it tool steel for nothing" and had at it. While you can feel which part of the edge was used, it's hardly dulled and you have to look pretty hard to see it. So M4 cuts lesser steels. I thought that was pretty neat.

[DougC-3]

[....]
Summation: IMO M4 takes a razor smooth edge and holds the razor smooth edge very well. That would indicate that the slightly duller "working edge" would last just about forever when using M4.
[....]
All this was to explain why I would like to see CPM-M4 as an optional steel for different models of Spyderco's.

Me too. Among existing knives, the Manix2, Manix2-XL, Millie, Para2, or Yojimbo2 would be great, with 5.2 oz being an upper weight limit, to allow a "working" knife that can be EDC'd frequently. The Bradley folders are unnecessarily "unidextrous," and I'm choil-spoiled :p

But, what I'd really like to see is a new 4.2 oz knife based on the Yojimbo2 but with a heavy, rugged M4 blade with a little bit of belly and shaped sort between the Yo2 and the Kahr Arms Delica, but with a good bit of hwarnie in it's background:

http://www.kahr.com/kahr-branded-produc ... eblack.asp

I would want to keep the blade broad at the proximal end like the Yo2, but have something to at least seem to keep the index finger safe from sliding down on the blade -- maybe jimping on handle in front of the index finger or a bit of hilt-like ricasso. I love choils but haven't yet quite figured out how to work one into this design :D

[jackknifeh]

I just decided I'm not going to test S30V. I already know how it will do. Why test something after I already know the results just to compare the performance to M4?

Jack

PS
All this was to explain why I would like to see CPM-M4 as an optional steel for different models of Spyderco's.

Retraction. I did go ahead and use the Sage4 with S30V on some small limbs just like I did the GB. The S30V did not hold the edge quite like the GB did but it did better than I assumed. I re-remembered why I like S30V so much. I cut the exact same amount of branches as I did with the GB, a bunch. :) Then I sliced some phone book paper. There were a couple of very small knicks on the edge which would catch on the paper but it still cut the paper easily. So even though I was surprised a little by how well the S30V did I guess it did perform just like I thought it would. I have always been impressed (and a little surprised) with S30V.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I recently tested my GB metal vs metal. I wanted to cut through a small bit of steel, and thought "well they can't call it tool steel for nothing" and had at it. While you can feel which part of the edge was used, it's hardly dulled and you have to look pretty hard to see it. So M4 cuts lesser steels. I thought that was pretty neat.

That is neat. I had never heard of this before until I recently read one of Murray Carter's knife sharpening tips he sends via email. He does that also. I was wondering what kind of steel you cut into? This is really intreaging. I dug through my saved emails and here is the paragraph that Murray Carter put in his email. Mr. Carter calls the cutting edge the primary edge and the "back bevel" the secondary part of the edge.

Cutting into some metals, brass rod, mild steel, cast iron:
One way to determine the relative hardness of the steel in a blade is to establish a new primary edge and then try to lightly cut into objects of known hardness. Some of my favorites are a brass rod, an old stainless steel spoon and cast iron. A soft blade will not “bite” into the spoon or cast iron. If you do this enough times with different blades you will soon intuitively know how to grade the hardness in the steel.

I would like to try this.

Jack

[PayneTrain]

I was wondering what kind of steel you cut into?

I wonder as well. I was tearing down some headphones so I could put the actual speaker parts inside my ski helmet, but once I finally got them and the wire off the headband, there was still one problem. The wires exited the speakers through a little tube that also served as the pivot for these compact headphones. This is what I was cutting, and I'm sure it's some pretty simple stainless steel. To be fair, I didn't actually finish the job. I got about halfway done and then realized the danger of cutting the very thin wire hidden inside, plus I would be creating a sharp edge that would probably over time cut into the wire. So I stopped, but not before the M4 had made its point. It was digging in with relative ease, all those various carbides tearing away at some simple steel. Pretty nice to know it can do such a thing and not become a butter knife.

[All-R-Crazy]

That is neat. I had never heard of this before until I recently read one of Murray Carter's knife sharpening tips he sends via email. He does that also. I was wondering what kind of steel you cut into? This is really intreaging. I dug through my saved emails and here is the paragraph that Murray Carter put in his email. Mr. Carter calls the cutting edge the primary edge and the "back bevel" the secondary part of the edge.

Cutting into some metals, brass rod, mild steel, cast iron:
One way to determine the relative hardness of the steel in a blade is to establish a new primary edge and then try to lightly cut into objects of known hardness. Some of my favorites are a brass rod, an old stainless steel spoon and cast iron. A soft blade will not “bite” into the spoon or cast iron. If you do this enough times with different blades you will soon intuitively know how to grade the hardness in the steel.

I would like to try this.

Jack

If u do do this pls post your results I'd b clad to see it thx

[TomAiello]

I was playing with my Mini Grip in M4 today, and it occurred to me that an M4 delica would be a really nice knife.

[jackknifeh]

I wonder as well. I was tearing down some headphones so I could put the actual speaker parts inside my ski helmet, but once I finally got them and the wire off the headband, there was still one problem. The wires exited the speakers through a little tube that also served as the pivot for these compact headphones. This is what I was cutting, and I'm sure it's some pretty simple stainless steel. To be fair, I didn't actually finish the job. I got about halfway done and then realized the danger of cutting the very thin wire hidden inside, plus I would be creating a sharp edge that would probably over time cut into the wire. So I stopped, but not before the M4 had made its point. It was digging in with relative ease, all those various carbides tearing away at some simple steel. Pretty nice to know it can do such a thing and not become a butter knife.

I think you need a new ski helmet. One that will accommodate some 8" speakers. :)

[jackknifeh]

If u do do this pls post your results I'd b clad to see it thx

I will. I put a thread up a week or two ago after trying something with my GB regarding sharpness levels. It included a video of me cutting into some sort of metal my work table is made of. I wasn't trying to test edge retention. I was trying to dull the edge which I ended up finding harder to do than I expected. That is why I posted the thread. But I'll definitely post results if/when I can do this with a metal of a known type.

[senorsquare]

I was playing with my Mini Grip in M4 today, and it occurred to me that an M4 delica would be a really nice knife.

There are a lot of knives I'd like to see in M4. Top of the list for me is the Nilakka. I love this knife as is, but CPM-M4 would make the Nilakka one seriously amazing knife. I doubt this would ever happen, but one can dream.


Untitled by senorsquare, on Flickr

[jackknifeh]

Spyderco is a great company when it comes to using such a wide variety of blade steels. Using M4 as an alternate feature in existing as well as new models like they do ZDP-189 sounds really great to me. D'fly, Stretch, Delica, and maybe others have VG-10 or ZDP-189 models. Why not add a CPM-M4 model? Of course I have no idea what this does regarding difficulty for Spyderco. Or how about this? A Persistance or byrd Meadowloark in 8Cr13MoV or M4? :)

Jack