Most Durable Spyderco Folder in Production

[JNewell]

Tuff would definitely be much stronger with a compression lock.

I didnt think of the lionspy- The lock on that would be stupid hard to fail witht he rotoblock on. BUT then you go into tips and the tuff probably wins again.

So there we go- I would say Lionspy and tuff. EvilD I would say the Valloton is up there, but its S30v isnt it? IIRC its not as tough as Elmax and definitely not as tough as 3v.

I don't think the Tuff would necessarily be any stronger with a compression lock. It's the old question Sal answers from time to time. No lock is inherently stronger than another - it's how they're sized and built that determines strength.

[JNewell]

So are you saying that if someone batoned with the knife in the locked position, there would be no force applied to the lock if done reasonably carefully? I thought that since your hand isn't applying the same downward force at the same time as the stick or whatever you are hitting the spine of the knife with, that difference in force gets transferred to the lock.

If you're going to insist on batoning a folder while it's locked, at least you can simply support the handle, rather than really holding onto it, when you hit the spine with the "baton." Far better to do this with the knife unlocked. However, the real problem is described in the post below, and he's right - when you start twisting and prying and forcing the handle up and down, any folder is likely to fail (lock, pivot, blade, liners, whatever).

It's not that simple. Certainly when you whack the spine with a piece of wood, there's not going to be much force on the lock unless you do something wrong. But ... What do you do once the spine is flush with the end of the piece of wood? You twist the knife and try to push it deeper. You may push on the tip and handle at the same time, alternating twisting and pushing. You may bang the end of the wood on the ground to get more penetration. You're putting a lot of force on the pivot area, and a twisting force in particular is one that a folding knife isn't well suited for. I'd only baton with a folder in an emergency.

Gordon

[jackknifeh]

I have never batoned anything with a folder but I've thought about it a little bit. Forget about twisting. I'm thinking about the actual whack with a piece of wood on the spine. I figure the knife would suffer little damage if any if when the spine is whacked you are also putting a lot of force on the handle pushing down. But, since twisting will be involved to a certain degree it seems to me as long as the twisting is kept to what the given knife will handle it should be ok. That may mean only baton smaller pieces. I don't know really. Since there is so much discussion about it it must be a questionable task for a folder. Maybe a fixed blade would be better. :D But, for the occasional abuse most good folders will handle it I think. I think my GB would be able to take it a few times. Manix2 also. Any of the harder use Spyderco folders would hold up fine to occassional abuse. There's a big difference in occassional and constant abuse I bet.

The title of this thread suggests there is one "toughest" Spyderco folder. IMO there are several "hard use" folders made by Spyderco. In fact I think they are all "hard use" folders if you just consider the size. Maybe the FRN handles without liners shouldn't be considered "hard use". That would depend on one's definition of "hard use" probably. The G-10 handle Manbug (with liners) I consider a "hard use" folder for it's size.

What would be interesting (sorta maybe :) ) would be for a level of toughness to be established to define the limits on twisting prying (except for the tip) etc. for folders. OTOH, it may be a complete waste of time. :) As long as we remember to consider a "hard use" knife either a "hard use" fixed blade or a "hard use" folder. These are two completely different "hard use" knives.

[chuck_roxas45]

And they said spine whacking didn't prove anything...

[rodloos]

I don't understand splitting wood with a knife, I think people do it just because they see it done on the internet. If you want smaller pieces of wood, then pick up smaller pieces of wood.

In general, yeah, no point in batoning a 12" log to make kindling unless that is all you have.

There is some value in being able to split wood though - when you need to build a fire and it has been raining, the outside of the wood is wet but you can split it to get at the dry wood on the inside. I agree there seems to be a lot of a "fad" just to prove how tough someone's knife is.

[TomAiello]

Can anyone compare the Tuff and Lionspy specifically? Anyone have both of them?

[phillipsted]

I don't think any FRN knife could be considered a tough as a good knife with liners or a frame.

I've certainly not treated my original Delica gently over the years. It is about as tough a knife as you will ever find. Its put up with its share of hard use and the scales never "popped right off".

And for the record, the Delica/Endura both have nested steel liners.

TedP

[GoodEyeSniper]

I don't understand splitting wood with a knife, I think people do it just because they see it done on the internet. If you want smaller pieces of wood, then pick up smaller pieces of wood.

I agree that there is some satisfaction in knowing that your gear will survive whatever you do with it. Would you buy a fork that was designed to resist the force that the average person pushes on it with? Maybe you push just a little bit more than average and it breaks. The manufacturer would say that you abused it by pushing on it more than the average person would. You would want a fork that would work for normal use by someone that was bearing down hard trying to cut through a tough steak or whatever.

I don't think any FRN knife could be considered a tough as a good knife with liners or a frame. If you carry a knife long enough some day you will need to pry with it, and the FRN handles would pop right off. You could say you shouldn't pry with a knife, but I read of someone that got locked in a mine and the only tool he had to use to get out was his folding knife. He could have stayed there overnight because "you shouldn't pry with a folding knife", or he could actually use it to get himself out and be able to go home. So some people do anticipate using their knife for rough things. I had a little thin knife in my garage that actually came with some window blinds, for cutting them to length. I tried cutting some boxes with it because it was thin steel, and actually broke it just cutting through some cardboard. Obviously cutting cardboard was abusing the knife that was made to cut a paper window shade, but I do cut a lot of cardboard and I need a knife that will hold up to that. I might need to carve some wood, cut wire ties, pry open a box, whatever. I can't carry a whole pocket full of tools with me all day, so the knife might be used for more than just opening an envelope.

The Tuff sure seems "tough" to me, and second in my mind would be the Bradley Folder or the Manix 2. The Endura/Delica/Stretch are way down the list.

lol I can't even come to think of a response to this.

Frn scales just popping off? um

but I'll try:

most blades will break before an frn scale will ever come close to breaking.

using a random knife you found as your main argument for thin being bad is pretty far fetched. there are a lot of us who use the thinnest knives around for some very hard cutting with no ill effect. you had something with either pot steel, a botched heat treat, or both.

I won't argue that they are theoretically weaker, because they are, but I will most certainly argue against someone trying to say they are weak. you should see the stuff I do to my Delica, opinel, case liner lock, Swiss army knife, and random paring knives. I would absolutely trust my life to them in a "survival" situation because they do their job very well.

this whole fantasy of "survival" meaning you must hack yourself out of a downed chopper or mineshaft gets pretty old. unless you are a pilot or a miner.

[Leif]

Tuff would definitely be much stronger with a compression lock.

Then shouldn't the most durable folder have a compression lock? I understand you care about blade thickness/ hardness but even then I think that with a very thick VG10 blade and a compression lock the Superleaf should win over the Tuff for the reason you gave.

[Blerv]

Then shouldn't the most durable folder have a compression lock? I understand you care about blade thickness/ hardness but even then I think that with a very thick VG10 blade and a compression lock the Superleaf should win over the Tuff for the reason you gave.

Context is everything.

Pound for pound a boxing featherweight (compression lock) is amazing. That doesn't mean without a weight restriction a heavy weight boxer (thick RIL's) wouldn't mop the floor with one.

If a Tuff could integrate a compression lock, with similar dimensions, it would likely be stronger. I guess you could stick a half-inch thick titanium lockbar between the tang and a stop pin but...

1. How big/wide/heavy would the knife be?
2. Could it be physically unlocked by people who aren't thumb-wrestling champions?

Knives like the Superleaf are absurdly tough. In terms of folding knives probably in the top dozen or two on the planet (many with compression locks). Overkill to say the least. Sure there are probably people driving 9 second quarter mile street cars to work but if you have a car in the mid 10's at 140mph that is far from slow. It's insanity in any place besides the Internet...

[free2game]

I don't think the Tuff would necessarily be any stronger with a compression lock. It's the old question Sal answers from time to time. No lock is inherently stronger than another - it's how they're sized and built that determines strength.

The compression lock seems mechanically stronger though. Given it's stress points are all hardened steel between the ball bearing, the blade, and the backspacer. Where as the stressed point on a ti frame lock is a fairly thin ti cut out that's naturally springy.

[Blerv]

The compression lock seems mechanically stronger though. Given it's stress points are all hardened steel between the ball bearing, the blade, and the backspacer. Where as the stressed point on a ti frame lock is a fairly thin ti cut out that's naturally springy.

Yea but he said:

I don't think the Tuff would necessarily be any stronger with a compression lock. It's the old question Sal answers from time to time. No lock is inherently stronger than another - it's how they're sized and built that determines strength.

We haven't seen the lock breaking machine's trail of destruction. I'm guessing that if Spyderco was breaking Tuff's left and right and Para2's were laughing, the Tuff would have been built differently.

[free2game]

Yea but he said:



We haven't seen the lock breaking machine's trail of destruction. I'm guessing that if Spyderco was breaking Tuff's left and right and Para2's were laughing, the Tuff would have been built differently.

As a data point, I remember Andrew Demko said that the strongest ti frame lock he'd ran into could only take about 200 pounds of hanging weight. Remember seeing the BM test of the 710 axis lock and it had a failure at around 1700 inch pounds. Forgot the exact conversions for similar hanging weight, but that would seem to put it far over 200 pounds of hanging weight. I'd imagine the steel on steel on steel type of lockup from the compression lock would yield something fairly comparable to the Axis lock.

[Blerv]

As a data point, I remember Andrew Demko said that the strongest ti frame lock he'd ran into could only take about 200 pounds of hanging weight. Remember seeing the BM test of the 710 axis lock and it had a failure at around 1700 inch pounds. Forgot the exact conversions for similar hanging weight, but that would seem to put it far over 200 pounds of hanging weight. I'd imagine the steel on steel on steel type of lockup from the compression lock would yield something fairly comparable to the Axis lock.

Interesting. Assuming the lock-break machine at Spyderco measure weight in a similar fashion almost every "heavy duty" (aka 100lbs/inch) lock they have would meet that; assuming of course probability of some failures. The "Extra heavy duty" or "MBC" locks are 200 lbs/inch. That would mean knives like the Bradley Folder and Tuff (or even the Para2) should hold a minimum of almost 800 lbs. IIRC they break a number of knives to come to these minimum thresholds. The Axis has and always will be an admirable creation. Not sure if Mr. Demko's statement of the RIL still holds up.

A test can either guide manufacturing standards or be used to impress with a single fluke. We see this quite a bit when putting cars on dynos or watching roided-out people in spandex benchpressing vapid ladies.

Then again, static vs shock strength are different matters all together. Plus the blade's ability not to shear or the person's ability to hold onto a knife at that level of stress. etc