Do Spyderco plan to put the internal stop pins in backlocks? Maybe on the Endura 5?

[free2game]

Hi, I was wondering if something like the internal stop pins that the Southard and Domino use would be possible to adapt to a backlock like the endura. It seems like it would do a lot for making the knife stronger and get rid of vertical play that backlocks prevalently have. Also what kind of improvements would anyone want on the Endura 5? It would seem like beside improving the lock they could switch to something like a solid G10 handle as that would provide more than enough strength and you'd have the improved texture of G10 vs FRN. Also it seems like Japanese knives in general are really creeping up in price a lot. Not sure if it's considered blasphemous since I think the Endura back from the late 80s/early 90s has always been made in Japan, but it seems like given the value of their US produced and Taiwanese made knives they could move production there and save on some costs. Along with maybe a steel change to something like Acutco+ (Since it's nearly like VG-10) or 154cm, or the CPM version since if I remember reading VG-10 is hard to get out of Japan for mass production or something of the like. Not sure if the price thing is true, but it seems like Kershaw moved their higher end blade production to the US for non kitchen knives for a reason, I'm sure cost was one.

[gbelleh]

The Chaparral uses the internal stop pins. Maybe others too?

[xceptnl]

I don't think the lockbacks could be "modified" for an internal stop pin due to the lack of steel surrounding the pivot hole in the tang. I would imagine this change to require an extensive redesign.

[free2game]

I don't think the lockbacks could be "modified" for an internal stop pin due to the lack of steel surrounding the pivot hole in the tang. I would imagine this change to require an extensive redesign.

Now that I remember I've seen a backlock that uses an internal stop pin like that. Italian made, forgot the name, maybe a Lionsteel or Fantoni, don't remember exactly.

Edit: Here it is,
Nilte Quiete
Looking at it, it seems like the blade could easily break at the stop in, but then again spyderco found it to be strong enough to use something similar in two of their knives so I'm not sure.

[The Deacon]

I could be wrong, but the way I see it, the Endura is positioned as one of Spyderco's "entry level" knives which makes me doubt they'd do something to add complexity and increase cost. IMHO, it's a feature more likely to show up on newer, higher priced models. Chaparral has an internal stop pin and, while I could be mistaken, I'm pretty sure the Sage 4 and Native 5 have them as well. As for moving Endura production to Golden, Spyderco can't keep up with the demand for the models currently made there. Unless and until they expand their production facility, adding a high volume model to that mix would be counter productive.

EDITED TO ADD - Spyderco's stop pin is the reverse of that. The pin is mounted on the blade tang, the channels are cut in the liners.

[Per-Sev]

The Native 5 does not use a stop pin here is a link to a few pics of it taken apart. I don't have any up down play in my Native 5 locks up solid as a rock.
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... torn-apart

[Donut]

From what I've seen of the Native 5 and Sage 4 disassembled, I don't think there are internal stop pins. There was talk about the Native 5's lock getting revisions to it. If the Native 5 shows benefits, we might see some or all of these lock revisions in other models.

[sal]

Hi Free2game,

Welcome to our forum.

Internal stop pins can offer some advantages in some situations. We don't use them on the Native 5 which hasn't shown any play. the Native lt.wt. will use the same lock geometry as the 5.

Japan doesn't do much with G-10 production. Most of our Seki made G-10 models are using USA made G-10. Usually machined in the US and shipped to Seki.

We've been working with our Japanese makers for more than 30 years. There would have to be a really good reason to move production, especially for our Endura and Delica models. Japanese prices have been going up steadily against the doollar for a number of years. I don't anticipate much change in the future. There is also the possibility of the dollar weakening against the Yen.

As far as steel goes, we have no experience with Acutco so I have no opoinions there. (If anyone here knows anything about Acutco, please share). Nor can I speak for Kershaw or their business model. They are a much larger company than Spyderco and usually have other issues (like supplying Big Boxes) than we do.

sal

[mattman]

That's an interesting tidbit that gives me a little more insight into the price differences of the G10 Delicas and Enduras... thanks, Sal!

[free2game]

That's an interesting tidbit that gives me a little more insight into the price differences of the G10 Delicas and Enduras... thanks, Sal!

Guess that would explain the lack of G10 enduras. Should have really picked one up when they were available : (

[jackknifeh]

Sage4 does have the stop pin like the Chaparral.

[SpyderNut]

The Chaparral uses the internal stop pins. Maybe others too?

I'm thinking my Nilakka does too.

[Ignaz]

Everybody says the Native5 has no blade play but I own two and both of them have noticeable up down play. My forum Native has got even a little bit side to side. That is annoying but however the Native is my favorite :spyder:

[Holland]

i would be okay if they used the native 5 lock on every back lock

[senorsquare]

Everybody says the Native5 has no blade play but I own two and both of them have noticeable up down play. My forum Native has got even a little bit side to side. That is annoying but however the Native is my favorite :spyder:

I have not experience this phenomena with my native 5's

[donutsrule]

I have not experience this phenomena with my native 5's

^^^What he said. My greenie has no blade play.

[kennethsime]

That link showing the teardown of the Native 5 is interesting, comparing the spring in it with the spring in the Endura, Delica, Stretch, Dragonfly etc. I wonder if it is a more robust design?

If we're talking Delica/Endura 5, can we please talk choil? My one request. Oh, and I think I like FRN + liners better than FRCP, although I would really go either way. Ok, one last one, stay with VG-10. CRKT uses Acuto and it's not bad, supposed to be kind of like AUS-10, but VG-10 is truly excellent.

[Ignaz]

^^^What he said. My greenie has no blade play.

That is exactly what I meant. I think my Natives are the only ones on earth that have bladeplay and all the others are perfect. Maybe just real bad luck

[dialex]

The internal stop pin would require a radical redesign of the inner workings of a regular lockback. Besides, although an interesting feature, it raises more problems than it solves, IMHO. Knowing that Spyderco doesn't complicate a design more than necessary, I doubt that we'll see an internal stop pin to an existing model.

[GronK]

That is exactly what I meant. I think my Natives are the only ones on earth that have bladeplay and all the others are perfect. Maybe just real bad luck

I've had similar probems with some lock backs, to include Buck 110's and others. 99% of the time a good cleaning resolves the issue. A bit of pocket lint or other muck in the lock engagement area can keep it from locking completely.