A few days ago my family and I were driving through the Mojave Desert outside Los Angeles. If you have never seen the Mojave, imagine 300 square miles of cat litter with a freeway through the middle. Very desolate. My five-year old had been nagging me for 30 minutes to go to the bathroom and we saw a Rest Stop ahead. Opposite the Rest Stop on the other side of the freeway was a State Prison. There were a series of signs warning motorists not to stop and pick up "hitchikers."
As we pulled into the parking lot it was empty except for six convicts standing around in orange jumpsuits. I assumed they were a cleanup crew but didn't see any guard with them. I sat in the van for a long minute deciding whether or not to get out. I told my wife to keep the engine running and the doors locked. Let's just say we didn't exactly run to the bathroom, but we didn't exactly wash our hands on the way back either!
I have done Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for several years and will have a square go with anyone. But I also carry a knife in the event the other guy has one (I have been stabbed before) on in the case of multiple attackers. As I opened my spyderco and slipped it into my belt, I though what I really needed here was a large caliber handgun with a 15-round magazine.
I suppose the fear of the situation made me question my abilities. Am I just fooling myself to think I could defend against several people with a knife. If you have ever played football and been tackled by three people you know there is not a lot of room to move. I'm thinking of giving up the knife and carrying a gun. I live in Arizona which is a CCW State, so I have the choice. Thoughts anyone?
Knife vs. Gun - Story
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travis quaas
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Hermes,
Welcome to the MBC Forum!!! The same issue floats in my head too. I truly believe that we shouldn't live in fear for ourselves and our loved ones. But, wow, your situation was an eye opener IMHO. But, do we fear what we don't know? I feel that Mr. Janich's MBC courses had real life applications. I still have a lot to learn, but, by educating myself, I feel a little more confident...It still looms over my head about what a friend used to tell me...there is always someone better than you...but it seems to me that if you are better than the majority of people out there, your fear is not as bad as when you truly suck and EVERYONE IS BETTER than you.
Keep the head high. I think my hairs would tingle on the back of my neck if I was in the same situation.
TQ
Welcome to the MBC Forum!!! The same issue floats in my head too. I truly believe that we shouldn't live in fear for ourselves and our loved ones. But, wow, your situation was an eye opener IMHO. But, do we fear what we don't know? I feel that Mr. Janich's MBC courses had real life applications. I still have a lot to learn, but, by educating myself, I feel a little more confident...It still looms over my head about what a friend used to tell me...there is always someone better than you...but it seems to me that if you are better than the majority of people out there, your fear is not as bad as when you truly suck and EVERYONE IS BETTER than you.
Keep the head high. I think my hairs would tingle on the back of my neck if I was in the same situation.
TQ
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glockman99
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"I thought what I really needed here was a large caliber handgun with a 15-round magazine."
...Hermes.
That's exactly what I carry...A Glock 10mm (model 20) with 16 total rounds of 155 grain Federal JHP.
But I also carry a couple knives...My stainless fully serrated Spyderco Police model, and a stainless plain edge Spyderco Delica. Sometimes I also pack my Camillus CUDA CQB-1.
And I'm ready for whatever might come my way to try to do me or mine any harm.
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
...Hermes.
That's exactly what I carry...A Glock 10mm (model 20) with 16 total rounds of 155 grain Federal JHP.
But I also carry a couple knives...My stainless fully serrated Spyderco Police model, and a stainless plain edge Spyderco Delica. Sometimes I also pack my Camillus CUDA CQB-1.
And I'm ready for whatever might come my way to try to do me or mine any harm.
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
Hermes posted: I'm thinking of giving up the knife and carrying a gun. I live in Arizona which is a CCW State, so I have the choice. Thoughts anyone? >>>
I carry both, for the versatility. And no, I don't believe it's unrealistic to think you can defend yourself with a knife against multiple attackers, within reason.
Beyond that, welcome aboard, sir!
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
I carry both, for the versatility. And no, I don't believe it's unrealistic to think you can defend yourself with a knife against multiple attackers, within reason.
Beyond that, welcome aboard, sir!
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
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Gray_Fallen
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Carry both knife & gun. Knife is handy for utility tasks, plus its not hard to imagine a situation where speed was of severe importance and you could get to the knife before the gun, or where you would need the knife to prevent a gun-grab. You might wish to add a second knife, or transition your knife to your weak-hand pocket so it could easily be employed at the same time as your gun, or employed without tying up your gun-hand.
I would add some further hand-to-hand training to your BJJ background if you are concerned about multiple-attacke rscenarios (a realistic concern indeed). Not to dis BJJ, I have extremely limited exposure to it, but what I have been exposed to, I wouldnt want to rely on BJJ alone in a non-ring confrontation, especially with multiple people. While you are on the ground with guy A, guys B through D are stabbing you or kicking you in the head. Staying on your feet is very important in a multiple attacker scenario, because you want to stay moving. "Stillness is death, speed is life", you stand still, or worst of all end up on the ground, you most likely wont be walking away from it. Stay on your feet and stay moving, forwards preferably. Move into your attacker, dominate him from on your feet, make him re-act to your actions, drive him down and move right over the top of him to the next guy. If there are no more, then you are already moving away from the location. Get out of dodge, to a safe place, to make the proper calls and tend your wounds. Hanging around means they might be after you again, or they have more buddies who will show up and come at you. Get to a safe place, theres no sense in leaving yourself in danger.
Reccomended reading: http://www.allinfighting.com/Forward.html - by combatives instructor Carl Cestari, great article.
I would advise your training in a stand-up fighting (striking) art be something along the lines of WW-II Combatives, ala the un-armed material from Applegate, Cestari and Kelly McCann. Check www.allinfighting.com, www.gutterfighting.org and www.get-tough.net for more info. Look into the books Get Tough by W.E. Fairbairn, Kill or Get Killed by Rex Applegate and any others you can find that you hear of around the sites I mentioned. Good stuff. My choice for a stand up fighting approach is based there. Combined with the grappling, you should be in good form for un-armed/up close and personal situations. Go for the CCW permit, of course. As one of the Gracie's said, "More than one, Get a Gun" <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Learn to use it well. You're closer to GunSight than most of us, so take advantage of that. Good luck <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I would add some further hand-to-hand training to your BJJ background if you are concerned about multiple-attacke rscenarios (a realistic concern indeed). Not to dis BJJ, I have extremely limited exposure to it, but what I have been exposed to, I wouldnt want to rely on BJJ alone in a non-ring confrontation, especially with multiple people. While you are on the ground with guy A, guys B through D are stabbing you or kicking you in the head. Staying on your feet is very important in a multiple attacker scenario, because you want to stay moving. "Stillness is death, speed is life", you stand still, or worst of all end up on the ground, you most likely wont be walking away from it. Stay on your feet and stay moving, forwards preferably. Move into your attacker, dominate him from on your feet, make him re-act to your actions, drive him down and move right over the top of him to the next guy. If there are no more, then you are already moving away from the location. Get out of dodge, to a safe place, to make the proper calls and tend your wounds. Hanging around means they might be after you again, or they have more buddies who will show up and come at you. Get to a safe place, theres no sense in leaving yourself in danger.
Reccomended reading: http://www.allinfighting.com/Forward.html - by combatives instructor Carl Cestari, great article.
I would advise your training in a stand-up fighting (striking) art be something along the lines of WW-II Combatives, ala the un-armed material from Applegate, Cestari and Kelly McCann. Check www.allinfighting.com, www.gutterfighting.org and www.get-tough.net for more info. Look into the books Get Tough by W.E. Fairbairn, Kill or Get Killed by Rex Applegate and any others you can find that you hear of around the sites I mentioned. Good stuff. My choice for a stand up fighting approach is based there. Combined with the grappling, you should be in good form for un-armed/up close and personal situations. Go for the CCW permit, of course. As one of the Gracie's said, "More than one, Get a Gun" <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Learn to use it well. You're closer to GunSight than most of us, so take advantage of that. Good luck <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
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mjmcdowell
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Hermes, I carry a knife and a gun most of the time I can whenever it is legal, just a thought here but if I was traveling through the desert as were you and my boy had to go to the bathroom seems to be a better idea to stop along the highway open the door and let him go I don't live any where near a desert but I don't think anyone would bother you with a little guy with a need to go, read LEO, certantly would not stop in the enviroment that you discribed, It's possible that you could have been tempting fate. be safe, mjmcdowell
Thanks all for the advice (and the welcomes.) I don't know if I was in much danger but it sure got the pulse going.
I guess the bigger question is how you would defend against three people with a knife. I guess it would depend on the people you were facing. I think you would have to drop them as fast as possible to have a chance and not fight them for 10 minutes like Jackie Chan. When I was stabbed (more of a poke really) the guy grabbed my left wrist with his left hand and held it straight out in front of me. He then had a straight shot at my torso. Try it - it's not easy to counter. I learned recently that this is a popular prison technique. The idea is to puncture the lung under the armpit. This will drop you no matter how much fight you have in you.
A former British Special Forces guy showed me a move years ago where they were taught to slash someone between the legs. The immediate effect (apart from shock) is to squeeze your knees together and drop on the ground (and pray your nuts don't drop out.) You sure aren't going to try to run with a wound like that. Anyone ever hear of anyone actually carrying this off?
I guess the bigger question is how you would defend against three people with a knife. I guess it would depend on the people you were facing. I think you would have to drop them as fast as possible to have a chance and not fight them for 10 minutes like Jackie Chan. When I was stabbed (more of a poke really) the guy grabbed my left wrist with his left hand and held it straight out in front of me. He then had a straight shot at my torso. Try it - it's not easy to counter. I learned recently that this is a popular prison technique. The idea is to puncture the lung under the armpit. This will drop you no matter how much fight you have in you.
A former British Special Forces guy showed me a move years ago where they were taught to slash someone between the legs. The immediate effect (apart from shock) is to squeeze your knees together and drop on the ground (and pray your nuts don't drop out.) You sure aren't going to try to run with a wound like that. Anyone ever hear of anyone actually carrying this off?
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travis quaas
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glockman99
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Travis,
"Second, I'm afraid that using profanity is not permitted."
What profanity was that?...If it was the word "nuts", you GOT TO BE KIDDING!
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
"Second, I'm afraid that using profanity is not permitted."
What profanity was that?...If it was the word "nuts", you GOT TO BE KIDDING!
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
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travis quaas
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glockmann,
no, I wish it was as simple as "nuts". but we don't need to go into the details. I am not here to edit people's post, I am here to do what I have been instructed to do. There is nothing wrong with posting things that are civil. But, unessary profanity is one thing I can not permit on this forum.
If you did not see the post, then I did my job. By the sounds of it, you did not. Please don't assume that I would cut someone off for something as trivial as using the word "nuts". That kind of assumption is weak at best. sogspy is more than welcome to continue postings. But without the profanity.
Hope that you do not perceive this as an arguement. I don't. I for one love seeing all the posts that people put out there. This includes you too Glockman! Let's just keep it cool and move on...what do you say?
TQ
no, I wish it was as simple as "nuts". but we don't need to go into the details. I am not here to edit people's post, I am here to do what I have been instructed to do. There is nothing wrong with posting things that are civil. But, unessary profanity is one thing I can not permit on this forum.
If you did not see the post, then I did my job. By the sounds of it, you did not. Please don't assume that I would cut someone off for something as trivial as using the word "nuts". That kind of assumption is weak at best. sogspy is more than welcome to continue postings. But without the profanity.
Hope that you do not perceive this as an arguement. I don't. I for one love seeing all the posts that people put out there. This includes you too Glockman! Let's just keep it cool and move on...what do you say?
TQ
The bigger question that has not been answered is, why did Hermes stay? If he was concerned about the convicts or any other people who were threatening arround, and he was in his car, why did he stay. Why would anybody stick arround to have a potential test of their combatives skills. Your skills were already tested. They functioned but you failed (we all have this failure all the time). IE: you went on allert, something made you feel uneasy, but you still used that facility anyway. A perhaps better thing to do would have been to go down the road to a different rest stop. Why stay when the back of your neck gets prickley and you sense the fear reaction building. First step in any combatives is recognizing a threat and taking effective countermeasures, usually this means GETTING OUT.
I am not laying blame on Hermes, we have all made this mistake a BUNCH of times, but we can use the experiences to inform our further decisions in the future.
Jason
Edited by - Jason on 9/16/2003 8:45:13 AM
I am not laying blame on Hermes, we have all made this mistake a BUNCH of times, but we can use the experiences to inform our further decisions in the future.
Jason
Edited by - Jason on 9/16/2003 8:45:13 AM