My first knife making effort

[jackknifeh]

I just looked on usaknifemaker.com for blade steel blanks and am VERY excited. They have several different steel types and the prices were what I expected, not cheap but not unaffordable either (some of them). THEN GUESS WHAT I FOUND! CPM-M4 at VERY reasonable prices. I can get a 1"x12" piece for under $17. That's one or two kitchen knives of M4! I don't know what you think but I think that's what I'll get. It is pretty thin but for kitchen use would be great. You can get it thicker also. Two paring knives for that price plus some nice but not outragously priced handle material sounds like a great project. Or maybe 3 knives if I don't make them full tang. With the use of a 3" paring knife I don't see the need for it to be full tang. Maybe one inch of steel into a handle should be strong enough I'm thinking. Anyone have experience with this theory??? I still have the problem of putting a grind on the blade. I'm really in over my head with tools and knowledge in this area. I can thin the edge free hand I think creating a convex grind that should cut great with already thin stock. Anyone's input in this area is greatly appreciated. My only options to change a flat piece of steel into a knife blade is free hand on stones or the EP. You can create any angle you want (even 0°) with the EP by raising the spine with a thin piece of wood or something. At least using it the cutting will be more accurate than me doing it free hand. :eek: :) I can see some learning by mistake in my future. :)

Post edit:
CPM-M4 measurement for under $17: CPM M4 .103/.113" x 1" x 12"

[kbuzbee]

Sounds excellent, Jack. How thick is the stock?

Recommend you talk to Sal, Tom Krein, Phil Wilson etc about the process. Somewhere in the back of my head I have this thought you'll want to have it heat treated after shaping (for ease if cutting the blank) but before grinding to minimize warping, even though it makes the grinding more difficult.

There is also a company (somewhere around here actually) called Ohio Water Jet (or some such thing) who will cut the blank down for you. Just a thought.

Do you have a belt grinder/sander yet? Seems to be the most common way to taper the spine to the edge. Your EP is going to take a LONG time to do that.

Ken

[jackknifeh]

Sounds excellent, Jack. How thick is the stock?

Recommend you talk to Sal, Tom Krein, Phil Wilson etc about the process. Somewhere in the back of my head I have this thought you'll want to have it heat treated after shaping (for ease if cutting the blank) but before grinding to minimize warping, even though it makes the grinding more difficult.

There is also a company (somewhere around here actually) called Ohio Water Jet (or some such thing) who will cut the blank down for you. Just a thought.

Do you have a belt grinder/sander yet? Seems to be the most common way to taper the spine to the edge. Your EP is going to take a LONG time to do that.

Ken

Thickness (thinness?): .103/.113"

Exactly when to heat treat is one thing I've wondered about.

No belt sander or anything like that yet. Newest tool is a new drill press. I NEEDED that I figured before the other stuff. I can get away with going slow for now. I don't even want to think about how much money I've spent since I decided to get one good pocket knife. :)

[kbuzbee]

Here are the guys I was thinking of:

http://www.greatlakeswaterjetinc.com/

Ken

[jackknifeh]

Here are the guys I was thinking of:

http://www.greatlakeswaterjetinc.com/

Ken

I clicked on the link and I guess I need one of those machines. I don't know what it is but I'll get one. Do you think I should write a check or do you thing they want money? :)

Gotta play with grandson. See ya!

[jackknifeh]

Here are the guys I was thinking of:

http://www.greatlakeswaterjetinc.com/

Ken

Read a little on the Greatlakes water jet company. Sounds good. One guy with a machine. Don't know if he would cut a blade out of a chunk of steel for someone. Sounds like he does a lot more intricate work that that but who knows. Probably does whatever people need. I'm a long way from wanting anything like this but it looks good for someone who gets serious with knife making and can't get the high cost stuff him/herself.

The first thing I'll need help with that I absolutely can't do myself is heat treat. I'll ask a question that will indicate my level of knowledge on heat treating. Can I put a blade in my oven for two hours at 450 degrees? Or should I leave it in there for three hours? Told ya. I need help. :)

[SpyderNut]

...The first thing I'll need help with that I absolutely can't do myself is heat treat. I'll ask a question that will indicate my level of knowledge on heat treating. Can I put a blade in my oven for two hours at 450 degrees? Or should I leave it in there for three hours? Told ya. I need help. :)

I just recently sent one of my handmade blades to Texas Knife Makers Supply for heat-treating and have been very pleased with their services. Their prices are pretty reasonable, too. In the past, I've also had a few blades heat treated at a local tool and die shop by a friend of mine. (Since he is a friend, he waived the cost for the heat treat ). You might try to contact one of your local tool and die shops and inquire about this service. Here is more info from the Texas Knife Makers Supply website:

[CENTER]Services and more...[/CENTER]

HEAT TREATING & TEMPERING BLADES

We offer the service of heat treating and tempering of handmade blades in our shop. This service is scheduled for every Tuesday (except on major holidays, in which case it will be done on the nearest full workday). Usually all blades are shipped out on the following Monday. We can do almost any air hardening material as long as we have the instructions or the customer sends them with the blades ( see helpful hints below ). Blades must be in our shop by Monday at 5:00 PM.

Our intent is to give the customer a hard and tough blade that they will be happy with. We use custom built electric furnaces with digital controls. All air-hardening blades are double wrapped in stainless foil which eliminates most of the scale usually encountered in heat treating these items. The small amount of scale or discoloration is usually easily buffed off, but occasionally more scale is encountered and heavier buffing is required. Stock removal is hardly ever required. Our intent is to temper the blades to a Rockwell “C” hardness of 58 or 59. Folder springs will be tempered to 43-45 Rockwell “C” unless otherwise requested. We heat treat and temper only air quenchable steels such as 440C, 440V, 154CM, ATS34, D2, A2, etc.

CAT. NO.
( HTT1-7 ) Heat Treating & Tempering. 1-7 blades under 10” in overall length.$5.50 each
( HTT8 or more) Heat Treating & Tempering on 8 or more blades under 10” overall length.$4.95 each
( HTT>10" ) Heat Treating & Tempering. Max. overall length of 20”. $10.00 each
( HTTVAS) Heat Treating & Tempering of VASCOWEAR, CRUWEAR, BG42, CPM10V, S30V, S90V. $15.00 each (includes CRYO Treatment)
( HTTSP ) Heat Treating & Tempering of Folder Springs and Rockers. $4.00 each
S30V Blades Heat Treating and Tempering $20.00 each


http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Hope this helps!

[jackknifeh]

Thanks SpyderNut. I'll keep this info. So far I figure I'll get some M4 because I love the steel AND it is the most reasonably priced, actually cheaper. :) M4 isn't listed in the info in your post but this may not be all inclusive in what they offer. I'll find out when I need to.

Thanks again.

[jackknifeh]

I'm calling this done for now. It's functional and about as sharp as I'll continue to get it. Plenty sharp enough to perform but just won't take a keen edge. Not bad I guess from nothing but left over materials. :) Plus, I learned and enjoyed it. If I do any more to it, it will be thinning the blade.

I still have some circular saw blade left :) but no more handle material. I won't buy any to use on this steel. It looks like my next blade making may be of M4. :D :D :D That will be one I definately hope to use. Since I seldom use a fixed blade I will probably make one or two kitchen knives with G-10 handles. :D

Here are the final pics with one with my Manbug for scale. I may put a small black FOB on it.

[bartvdb]

nice

[gull wing]

Great for you Jack! :D
I love it when someone brakes into the knife making arena.
You WILL get better and you love it.
I know for me it has been several decades of pure fun. :)

Good luck.

[Minibear453]

Jack, I'm not sure how M4 is heat treated, but Texas Knifemakers will only heat treat air quenchable steels. I know Peter's heat treat will do it, but I believe it's $25 for a knife, and then it gets a lot cheaper after like 70 blades in a batch or so. Also, you'll want to "finish" the knife first, and leave a little bit at the edge so the knife won't warp at heat treat. So cut out the blank, file/grind everything, and then send off to heat treat. Then, when you get it back, finish the sharpening on a stone.

[jackknifeh]

Jack, I'm not sure how M4 is heat treated, but Texas Knifemakers will only heat treat air quenchable steels. I know Peter's heat treat will do it, but I believe it's $25 for a knife, and then it gets a lot cheaper after like 70 blades in a batch or so. Also, you'll want to "finish" the knife first, and leave a little bit at the edge so the knife won't warp at heat treat. So cut out the blank, file/grind everything, and then send off to heat treat. Then, when you get it back, finish the sharpening on a stone.

Thanks minibear. I didn't know when to heat treat a blade. So this is one of many questions that is now answered. Since I'm just starting at this I'm sure it will be at least 2 weeks before I need 70 knifes done at one time. :) I might even do something really crazy like buying a book which would answer many questions. Thanks for any kind words guys, help and suggestions. Looking forward to persuing this but I'll be taking it slow. Maybe I can sell some on eBay for enough to get the material for the next knife. I can see that this could get expensive. I will be looking at making folding knives. Not making each piece but buying the parts and trying to make the blade. Maybe it's not TOO hard to cut the tang to make a liner lock that won't wobble too bad when it is open. :) We'll see. :D