Watch Enthusiasts - Opinions Needed

[Monocrom]

Are Casio G shocks the top for digital quart watches? They have the only brand I can think of.

Casio G-shocks or Suunto watches if you want the best of digital. Though with Suunto, some have complained of short battery-life.

[Monocrom]

In the 60's the watch had an acrylic crystal a strap that wasn't solid construction and a movement that (although state of the art a the time) compares nothing to the movements of today. I earned $4 an hour when the sub was worth $600 a case of beer was $4 and gallon of gas was 40 cents.

Keep in mind, I did take inflation into account. As well as actual improvements over the years. Though I accidentally omitted that part from my previous post. Apologies for any confusion that was caused. However, once again, even with a very generous profit on the sale of each one; a brand new Rolex Sub should cost no where near North of $4,000 at the most. At $8900, one is indeed spending over half the asking price simply for the name "Rolex" across the dial. Nothing wrong with doing so, as long as the buyer is aware of that fact and willing to pay the Luxury Fee.

Another aspect is that I've noticed a decline in Q.C. from Rolex. Dust underneath the dial, indencies just a skewed, etc.

Now, some might see that as nit-picking. I don't. Not on a Rolex or any recognized Luxury timepiece. On a cheap Timex, it wouldn't be an issue. (Though in fairness I've never seen dust inside the dial of any Timex watch I've owned. Nor inside the dial of ANY inexpensive watch I've owned.) These are the type of Q.C. issues that simply did not exist back when Rolex was still the brand of Adventurers and others who grabbed Life by the horns and made it submit to their will. Those old Rolex ads. are definitely a sight to behold. The new ones? . . . A recent one shows a new Rolex with a golf country-club house in the background. Yup. A bit of truth in advertising about the brand's now old and stodgy character.

I'll happily spend my money on a vintage Rolex. Made back when Rolex's original reputation still applied. A modern-day one? Perhaps the new Explorer II. But only after a careful and thorough examination with a Jeweler's loupe. The materials have gotten better but ironically their standards have dropped since the days folks could buy gas with the spare change in their pockets.

Rolex has constantly improved just about everything to do with the watch. The bracelet, the case, the crystal, the dial, the movement. Honestly a lot of brands have sat on there hands but Rolex isn't one of them. And what does Mohamed Ali have to do with this.

Bracelets were improved only recently. For a long time, Rolex owners complained about them almost as often as the clasps. Once again, although materials have improved, Q.C standards have dropped off sharply.

I believe the Mohammad Ali reference was quite clear and appropriate. Both the Man and the brand became mere shadows of themselves in later years. But with a man, especially a boxer who takes repeated blows to the head over a lifetime, the terrible decline is both unfortunate and understandable. With a business, any business; such a similar decline (while unfortunate) is far from understandable.

5 figures for a watch service? So you are saying $10,000 plus for a service, really has that happened to you? The service on most Fine Swiss watches is about $3 to 600 unless it needs restoration. Although this is not cheap, they are made from premium parts the tolerances are closer the materials are finer and the people that work on them are more skilled which results in a higher cost of ownership . I can understand people not wanting to bother with them but if you appreciate fine watches, you get it

That figure was applied only to High-End watches from recognized High-End brands. But if you honestly know a skilled independent watchmaker charging no more than $600 to service a vintage Patek Philippe, please PM me his name and number.

Keep in mind also that most fine Swiss-Made watches are Swiss-Made in name only. And, that they contain parts shipped over from China. The legendary mark of quality that comes with the words "Swiss-Made" on the dial is completely meaningless in this modern day of the legal definition. Since in that nation, 51% of parts is legally good enough to qualify as "Swiss-Made." No worries though. The masses are still fooled due to their ignorance of what's truly inside many, though certainly not all, watches that have "Swiss-Made" on their dials. Better to research individual "Swiss-Made" brands in order to find out which ones still truly are, and which ones are simply "Swiss-Made" in name only.

My Christopher Ward C60 diver Pro was an excellent watch for the money. I only sold it due to its weight being an issue on my wrist. (Still regret that sale at times.) But the absolute most ridiculous thing about that watch were the words "Swiss-Made" written across the dial. Excellent watch. But "Swiss-Made" in name only.

$600 wouldn't be enough to cover the cost of a routine servicing of some recognized Luxury watches. Much less High-End ones. Still, if you know of a guy charging that little and doing an excellent job of servicing High-End watches; please share. You'd honestly be doing the rest of us a big favor.

[DRKBC]

Thanks that was enlightening I'll keep it in mind

[Jazz]

Yes, some of the cheaper bracelets will pull hair. I've never had one of my good bracelets do that, and I've owned a lot of different bracelets.




I've owned 3 eco-drives and I've had battery problems with all 3 of them. I still own one eco-drive, because I really like its styling. I just sent it to Citizen in California for repairs, for about $100. We even have a Citizen repair depot in my city but it was easier for me to mail it in than to drive all the way across town to that place. There are other companies in the US that will do the repairs, for similar pricing.




That is a modified Seiko SKX007 mechanical dive watch, I had it customized to my design. The green dial came out of a Seiko 5 military-styled watch, I had to buy the new watch on ebay just to get the dial. The hands are aftermarket hands bought from Singapore. I bought all of the parts and had the work done by northwest watch works in the US. I'm actually wearing it right now.

That's a gorgeous watch.

kbuzbee - The G-shock on the left in your pic is the one I want next. Beautiful. I don't have huge wrists, but I like a manly looking watch, plus I bang them around sometimes and need them waterproof. I cook for a living. The one I have right now is great, but the hands don't glow - only the numbers - what's up with that? I'm more a fan of analog nowadays, but I like the G-shocks with both.

[kbuzbee]

Casio G-shocks or Suunto watches if you want the best of digital. Though with Suunto, some have complained of short battery-life.

Those would be my top two.

I had a Suunto before these Gs. Really liked it. Never had the fast drain battery issue. It just went wonky one day.

So far, both Gs are rockin. They hold the solar charge a long time and here (NE Ohio) they sync every night. I had issues with that in Hawaii and the Caribbean, but who cares what time it is when you're there?

Ken

[kbuzbee]

kbuzbee - The G-shock on the left in your pic is the one I want next. Beautiful. I don't have huge wrists, but I like a manly looking watch, plus I bang them around sometimes and need them waterproof. I cook for a living. The one I have right now is great, but the hands don't glow - only the numbers - what's up with that? I'm more a fan of analog nowadays, but I like the G-shocks with both.

Thanks. The Aviator series is great across the board. There are blue and orange models like mine. The hands glow "okay" They won't give away your position but in pitch black, they are readable for 5-7 hours. It has a bezel light but it's basically useless. The backlight on the Mudman is much stronger for folks who do a lot in the dark.

Ken

As to size, they both look like a regular watch on a "normal" person, on me

[kbuzbee]

That's a gorgeous watch.

kbuzbee - The G-shock on the left in your pic is the one I want next.

Did you look at the first link David posted in post #51? That thing is STUNNING!

Ken

[Bladekeeper]

The legality of advertising like your example is prevalent in the food industry especially.
Other industries too components are imported and assembled in a country then its xxx made.
However please and I'm not being argumentative or calling your info out , Swiss manufactured watches are importing components from china .
Krug baumen yes ok but a high end marque please pm me any proof you have of this .
I'd sure like to take it up with the European trading standards .
The food situation is slightly different eg a apple pie in a pack is 45% pastry 45% inverted sugar syrup 9% other ingredients .
Only 1% is real apple but it can be on the box "made with 100% real apples" as the 1% apple is well ...apple.
The importation of components and being named a Swiss brand is different is that what you meant ?.
Rolex history also has a lot more to it than your summary a Anglo/Germanic collaboration that was only moved to Switzerland due to a tax on gold etc at the start of ww2.
To sum it up as a brand for the adventurous type would be doing it a disservice not everyone is aware of it being a London brand originally either.
The first watches had W&D and then a shop retailers name on them but they pioneered a lot of firsts similar to spyderco yet a lot of spyderco users aren't aware.
Of course the forum users are.
But again its advertising and when you refer to Rolex adverts in the USA are they regularly advertised on TV ?.
Here in the uk they are usually only advertised in high brow magazines etc.

[DRKBC]

Bdblue I like the Nato strap!

I bought one of these a couple of years ago and it's been a great watch also available with a rubber strap and also in all black. My wrist is also about 6.5" this watch is fairly large, but I like it. Its been very durable and you never have to wind it as it has a capacitor in it which charges up from motion. At some point you do have to replace the capacitor though, just something to keep in mind. The model is Seiko kinetic divers 200m, I think paid under $300 for it. Very solid construction and decent value IMO.

[Monocrom]

Those would be my top two.

I had a Suunto before these Gs. Really liked it. Never had the fast drain battery issue. It just went wonky one day.

So far, both Gs are rockin. They hold the solar charge a long time and here (NE Ohio) they sync every night. I had issues with that in Hawaii and the Caribbean, but who cares what time it is when you're there?

Ken

When you're vacationing in either place, you truly don't need a watch.

Just be sure to tell the hotel clerk to text you when it's time to check out. :D

[kbuzbee]

When you're vacationing in either place, you truly don't need a watch.

Just be sure to tell the hotel clerk to text you when it's time to check out. :D

True story.

I'm proud to say I don't text. Never have. Never will. Don't even know how, and that's okay.

Ken

[[ENFORCER]]

True story.

I'm proud to say I don't text. Never have. Never will. Don't even know how, and that's okay.

Ken

Just like emailing, except with a 2" keyboard...

[kbuzbee]

]Just like emailing, except with a 2" keyboard...

Yeah, I think that's the main reason I don't. It's just like email. No additional benefits. A few draw backs. I email, so I don't need to text.

Ken

[Monocrom]

The legality of advertising like your example is prevalent in the food industry especially.
Other industries too components are imported and assembled in a country then its xxx made.
However please and I'm not being argumentative or calling your info out , Swiss manufactured watches are importing components from china .
Krug baumen yes ok but a high end marque please pm me any proof you have of this .
I'd sure like to take it up with the European trading standards .
The food situation is slightly different eg a apple pie in a pack is 45% pastry 45% inverted sugar syrup 9% other ingredients .
Only 1% is real apple but it can be on the box "made with 100% real apples" as the 1% apple is well ...apple.
The importation of components and being named a Swiss brand is different is that what you meant ?.
Rolex history also has a lot more to it than your summary a Anglo/Germanic collaboration that was only moved to Switzerland due to a tax on gold etc at the start of ww2.
To sum it up as a brand for the adventurous type would be doing it a disservice not everyone is aware of it being a London brand originally either.
The first watches had W&D and then a shop retailers name on them but they pioneered a lot of firsts similar to spyderco yet a lot of spyderco users aren't aware.
Of course the forum users are.
But again its advertising and when you refer to Rolex adverts in the USA are they regularly advertised on TV ?.
Here in the uk they are usually only advertised in high brow magazines etc.

Please feel free to stop by the biggest, dedicated, watch forums on the Net. (WatchUseek.com)

Not a perfect site. A few issues. Still family friendly, but with certain different rules compared to Spyderco.com

Thing is, it's common knowledge among enthusiasts and collectors that quite a few "Swiss-Made" brands have parts in them that are made and imported from China. One easy way to tell is simply going by asking prices. Once again, you don't get what you pay for with watches. That usually means getting horribly overcharged, occasionally getting a fair price, and yes; even sometimes getting more for your money. At least it seems that way when a customer thinks he's getting an all-Swiss Made timepiece with parts all from that nation. Factor in the Chinese parts and the 51% rule, and that bargain sounding prices not only stops screaming at you, but goes completely mute too.

One example would be the my own Christopher Ward C60 mentioned previously.

Now take a look at how much it would cost to own one. That asking-price is suspiciously low. How do they do it? Well, no secret how they do it. Thing is, I can't crack one open, show you high resolution pics of the parts inside, and thus prove my point. I could . . . if one were a big enthusiast or watch collector and knew the subtle differences between parts that are genuine ETA parts vs. excellent Chinese copies of those parts. And it would also involve a deep knowledge and understanding of the politics involved in the watch world. An understanding that makes it clear that small, independent, watch brands such as Christopher Ward can no longer afford to turn to the Swatch Group in order to get ETA parts for their watches. And not just the independent ones. Some recognized big brands as well.

To further muddy the waters (this is where I put my shovel down and climbed inside a backhoe to get through the sheer B.S. I was encountering in the wonderful world of watches), any Christopher Ward along with watches that are not one of the brands part of the giant, disgusting, monopoly known as the Swatch group; will still feature genuine ETA parts inside that are not from ETA. Then again, there are watches which were sold just a few short years ago as having ETA movements inside that weren't made by ETA. They were made by Sellita. An independent and relatively small Swiss movement maker that at one point was sub-contracted by ETA to make parts for ETA. Thus Sellita is in a unique position of knowing how to make ETA movements but not legally being able to call them what they are. And unlike Chinese brands such as Seagull that simply bought ETA based watches and did an excellent job copying the movement; then selling them on the cheap since no money was spent on their own R&D . . . What Sellita creates aren't copies. They're the genuine thing. But under a different name. Thus their version of the ETA 2824 is the Sellita SW200. Same, exact, movement though. So that one can't be called a copy. Ironically, even die-hard watch enthusiasts get confused by that and still refer to Sellita's offerings as copies of what ETA makes.

Thing is, some watch brands are open and honest regarding which movements they use. Others will take a movement, yes even an ETA copy from China, and simply re-name it with an in-house moniker that they can simply use. Once again, if I take one of those such watches, open up the case, take great pics, and then post them; the average person won't have a clue what I'm trying to show. Namely a so called "Swiss-Made" watch that has very low cost Chinese parts inside. If an individual is a big enthusiast, a dedicated collector, or a skilled watchmaker; they'll instantly see what I'm showing them. But many folks aren't those things and will simply see a watch with what looks like a perfectly good movement inside.

Let me give another example to illustrate my point. I was watching the show Parking Wars on TV. There was a guy trying to get his car out of impound. He paid the tickets and the fines, but no one could find his vehicle. It was a first generation Honda Passport SUV. Turns out his vehicle was towed away at night, the tow driver apparently glanced at his car, wrote it down on the paper-work as an Isuzu Rodeo, and towed it away . . . They found his SUV, but the owner kept whining to the camera-man, wondering why the tow-truck driver had written up his Honda Passport as an Isuzu Rodeo.

I know why. Everyone who is obsessed about cars knows why. Back when the SUV craze hit, Isuzu was in a great position to fill the demand. Making several SUV models, other foreign brands had to scramble to meet the new demand. Honda however decided the craze wouldn't last at all. When it realized how wrong that conclusion was, they were desperate to offer consumers a Honda SUV. Honda dealerships in America were complaining that they were losing customers. Customers who wanted a Honda SUV, and then bought their rides from the competition instead because Honda had no SUV models to offer. Really desperate to get their slice of the pie by now, Honda made a deal with Isuzu. Honda would get Isuzu's popular Rodeo SUV model but with Honda badges, a slightly different grill, and named "Passport." Isuzu got something they wanted in their line-up but didn't have. They wanted Honda's excellent mini-van, but with four conventional doors. Thus granting Isuzu a share of the family-hauler / soccer mom market. In this case, the Honda badges were removed and Isuzu name-plates put on.

Thus, Honda offered its customers what they wanted. An SUV with the Honda name. (It completely lacked the brand's legendary reliability since in all ways that mattered, it wasn't a real Honda. Underneath it had parts that were made somewhere else.) And the average consumer who walked in and bought one had no clue about the deal between Honda and Isuzu. When the average consumer popped the hood to check the oil, they had no clue they were looking at parts from Isuzu. The obsessed gear-heads though, knew they weren't looking at a Honda when they lifted that hood and saw those parts inside.

Same situation with watches. Yes, I can PROVE that quite a few Swiss-Made watches have very low-cost Chinese parts inside of them. Problem is, I can't prove it if the person looking at such pics or looking at the actual watch doesn't know what to look for in order to spot the differences. Just as that SUV owner who kept on insisting his ride was a genuine Honda wouldn't know what to look for unless he was REALLY into cars. ****, I could find an Isuzu Rodeo from that year, park it right next to his Honda Passport, have him take a look at it . . . And he still would not see the difference. He'd just see two similarly-styled SUVs. (And would likely think Isuzu stole the design from Honda in order to sell more SUVs by tricking folks into believing they were getting something just as good as a Honda, since it looked like one.)

[Monocrom]

Yeah, I think that's the main reason I don't. It's just like email. No additional benefits. A few draw backs. I email, so I don't need to text.

Ken

I'm with you there completely. I refuse to text. Why text when I can speak into my cellphone? Either directly to another human-being or leave them a short message. It's called a cellphone. It's not a cell-typewriter or a cell-keyboard. Why put in the extra effort of typing on keys when I can just speak into my phone?

[kbuzbee]

I'm with you there completely. I refuse to text. Why text when I can speak into my cellphone? Either directly to another human-being or leave them a short message. It's called a cellphone. It's not a cell-typewriter or a cell-keyboard. Why put in the extra effort of typing on keys when I can just speak into my phone?

...and then there's that. It's pretty much impossible to get a phone, any phone, these days that gives you the impression it's primary function is making phone calls.

Games, PDA functions, browsers, texting, cameras, oh yeah, and you can make and receive calls to, if you're so inclined

It's like the attitude is voice calls are only for the technically challenged or something.

Ken

At least the primary function of most watches is still to keep accurate time. For now.

[[ENFORCER]]

...and then there's that. It's pretty much impossible to get a phone, any phone, these days that gives you the impression it's primary function is making phone calls.

Games, PDA functions, browsers, texting, cameras, oh yeah, and you can make and receive calls to, if you're so inclined

It's like the attitude is voice calls are only for the technically challenged or something.

Ken

At least the primary function of most watches is still to keep accurate time. For now.

Remember when those watch/calculators came out?
Well, now we have a phone, in a watch..
http://www.3gwatches.com/

[Monocrom]

...and then there's that. It's pretty much impossible to get a phone, any phone, these days that gives you the impression it's primary function is making phone calls.

Games, PDA functions, browsers, texting, cameras, oh yeah, and you can make and receive calls to, if you're so inclined

It's like the attitude is voice calls are only for the technically challenged or something.

Ken

At least the primary function of most watches is still to keep accurate time. For now.

True. Unfortunately some watches are simply fashion accessories. When teenagers in the '80s were wearing two or three or even more Swatches on each arm (all in bright colors) it was fashionable and fun. Seeing adults do it with certain timepieces . . . Not so much.

As far as phones goes, I must admit that the ones with camera feature (good camera feature) and email access basically allow an individual to have a decent digital camera without paying the added expense of getting a dedicated one. Other than that, the only two other extra features I've ever used are alarm clock and calculator. Truth be told, after trying out everything from basic to advanced smartphones, I'm back to my old Samsung E105. Tough to do more basic than that one.

However, it's slim, lightweight (practically featherless), excellent battery-life that can be measured in days instead of a few hours, and doesn't have a ridiculously fragile touch-screen.

[kbuzbee]

]Remember when those watch/calculators came out?
Well, now we have a phone, in a watch..
http://www.3gwatches.com/

Yeah, and there's an iWatch on the horizon.

True. Unfortunately some watches are simply fashion accessories.

True. I HATE those. Total junk!

As far as phones goes, I'm back to my old Samsung E105. Tough to do more basic than that one.

However, it's slim, lightweight (practically featherless), excellent battery-life that can be measured in days instead of a few hours, and doesn't have a ridiculously fragile touch-screen.

Sounds like a winner. We wound up with LG840Gs but they are like $50 so if you kill it, you kill it. Actually, reception isn't bad. Much better than our old Samsungs. (but different carrier so...)

Ken

[D1omedes]

Well, just got my Orient. :D

Bad news is that I think I just started a new hobby.

Good news is that the watch fits pretty good on my smallish wrist (6.5 inches) but I am not too psyched with the band. Might have to put on a leather or nylon strap. The dial and numerals look great. The audible rotor shocked me but I have found that's par for the course with Orients. Once I settled my nerves, I couldn't help but read through the manual and stare at the winding wheel for 10 minutes. Factor in the aesthetics, eco-friendly non-battery mechanism, intricate engineering, uniqueness and I'm hooked.

Thanks a lot guys. :p

For some strange reason, I have the urge to pick up a Casio Solar/Atomic. Strange. :rolleyes: