Frustration!: Arguing about lockback's strength

[DelicateEndurance]

I don't know why, but I got into this silly argument over at another forum about the strength of the lockback on the Endura. I simply stated how I've used an Endura for pretty tough work (jungle survival training in Brunei), and the lockback mechanism never failed me. I never expected to get into an exchange over how the Spyderco lockback mechanism sucked, and the Cold Steel Tri-Ad mechanism could withstand a nuclear explosion, or which would allow you to hang over the edge of a cliff.

Look, I don't know that much about lock mechanisms, and I'm pretty sure the Tri-Ad mechanism is one tough mechanism, but seriously, I was just stating things as I see it, not trying to get into a contest to see who has a knife that could be used to climb Mount Everest in place of pitons. But then, that's not a survival/life-and-death task I consider realistic. If you need a folding knife to be a piton, you've got bigger problems, buddy!

Let's just be clear: the basic lockback or liner lock on a knife is plenty strong to trust your life to, provided that it's properly executed. Period. A Spyderco Resilience with its liner lock or the Spyderco Endura are more than enough for what I consider realistically survivable scenarios.

[Liquid Cobra]

A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

[JD Spydo]

I tend to agree with you for the most part Brother because I've personally never had any of Spyderco's lockback locking systems ever fail on me or even give me any minor trouble either.

But the intense arguments I've encountered over folder locking systems gets beyond ridiculous in my humble opinion. Because no folder was ever intended to do what a full tang, solid construction fixed blade could ever accomplish anyway.

I've been hearing the praises of BM's Axis Lock and Spyderco's compression lock for many years now. But I've never had either one of those ever fail on me either or even give me minor trouble as far as that's concerned.

I believe every locking system on most folders will fail on you under the right conditions but on the other hand folders were never ever meant to excede what a fixed blade could provide.

I've never seen any survival manual ever recommend anything but a fixed blade in the past 3 years I've been reading material about survival hardware. But what the heck if it is working well for you why would anyone else give a flying hoot :rolleyes: >> Just so they could hear their own self righteous rant I guess :rolleyes:

Any hardware can fail>> even a well made fixed blade has it's limits. But the weak human flesh will fail far before any knife hardware will anyway I personally have a lot of confidence in Spyderco's and BM's locking systems myself and have never had any of them fail on me yet. OK where did I put that sheet of plexiglass :D

[Bladekeeper]

The point at which the exerted force of a lock back breaking regardless of how much is arbitrary.
If its being used within its limits it shouldn't be anywhere near what it can take.
Just think about it , locks must by nature of the result of a fail would be over engineered by any good company the result of failure is a serious injury.
If your getting near those points then anybody with an iota of sense should be using a fixed blade IMO and even they can snap , bad HT poorly welded rat tang etc, etc.
Just be a use a lock can hold a ton for however long in red letters on a cold steel vid doesn't mean that's what it's designed for.
I have milk in the fridge but no cow in the yard .

[BAL]

A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

+1

[Evil D]

Well if all you're doing is cutting things, lock strength is irrelevant. You could survive in a jungle with a friction folder as long as the pivot is up to the task. It's only when you start abusing a knife that lock strength matters. Some can take abuse better than others but if I'm genuinely surviving for my life I'm not going to risk breaking my knife by batoning with it. I'll burn a tree down before I try to chop it with an Endura.

[ABX2011]

What I like about the Triad is that it uses a stop pin which eliminates the slight vertical blade play on many lockbacks. Spyderco has started using a different style of stop pin on some of their lockbacks like the Sage 4 and Native 5. Overall though I'd choose a regular Spyderco lockback over the Triad lock because on many Triad examples that I've operated, the lock is very sticky. The gain in absolute strength is irrelevant. As far as reliability, Spyderco seems to be just as reliable and the knives are much smoother to operate.
So as someone else stated, why bother arguing?

[Blerv]

Cutting with the edge instead of the spine allows all locks to pass with flying colors . You are arguing with a group that is less practical than a D&D campaign.

[O,just,O]

Survival is not about the strength of the locking mechanism on a folder. If those fellas think that it is, then they think wrong. Wrong thinking is not for a survivor.
O.

[Kev83]

I agree with others in saying if you're putting so much force on a particular lock on a folder that it causes a fail, outside of normal use that is, then a folder isnt what you need. Said person should be using a fixed blade knife. At some point when you get into a heated debate over things it's best to just say, zip it up boys this pissing match is over!

[gaj999]

So you came over here looking for an argument you could win? Gee thanks.

Gordon

[jackknifeh]

I agree with everyone here. If you have to worry about how strong the lock is, get a fixed blade.

I had the concern of not having a very very strong lock several years ago. The problem with this is if every lock on every folder I own will stand up to 10 times the force I ever put on a knife, why do I need one that will stand up to 15 times the force? Shopping primarily for the strongest lock will stop someone from buying some really great knives for a poor reason IMO. But, each to his own.

[Blerv]

The lock is the least of my concerns. If the make, blade shape, and overall dimensions are not ideal it's instantly disqualified. Plenty of cheap knifes use frame locks and those aren't exactly CRK's.

There are certain famous locks that enter into the "battle of the best". My chance of buying a Tri-Ad or Axis knife is pretty much nil. Likewise the Compression Lock is fantastic but that doesn't help if you don't buy Spyderco knives.

The standard lockback makes no silly claims. Often it's quite strong and can be made nearly bulletproof. To enter it unwillingly into a contest (except in say the case of the Chinook or Manix) seems odd. It's like putting my economy car in a tractor pull.

[Cliff Stamp]

In regards to the Tri-Ad, the benefit to the design is in several respects over a standard lock back, the most significant of which is that the lock when forced loads a stop pin set into the handle and not the locking mechanism itself, this is one of the fundamental design constrains of a quality lock.

In regards to benefits, it is generally used on knives which are intended to be used for work other than precision cutting, note that these knives are often promoted for tactical, fighting, etc. and meant to be able to take significant forcing loads on the lock and resist it breaking/closing.

It would of course be arguable that it would not be of significant value on a very small folder with a very slim blade.

[jabba359]

Each of the locks have their advantages and disadvantages, so the user needs to decide which tradeoffs they want to accept. I will give up the ability to hang off a building with my knife lock for the comfort and ease of operation as well as the ability to fit nicely into my pocket. If I ever find myself needing to stab through a steel beam to stop my fall from atop a skyscraper, then I will probably regret my choice, but until then I'll take the tradeoffs. :D

In regards to the Tri-Ad, the benefit to the design is in several respects over a standard lock back, the most significant of which is that the lock when forced loads a stop pin set into the handle and not the locking mechanism itself, this is one of the fundamental design constrains of a quality lock.

In regards to benefits, it is generally used on knives which are intended to be used for work other than precision cutting, note that these knives are often promoted for tactical, fighting, etc. and meant to be able to take significant forcing loads on the lock and resist it breaking/closing.

It would of course be arguable that it would not be of significant value on a very small folder with a very slim blade.

Agreed. Like putting tank treads on a sports car. Just as tank treads have a legitimate place on a tank (or other heavy-duty armored vehicle), the Tri-Ad lock also has its place. But I prefer the every day ease of use and reliability that the regular back lock offers.

[Holland]

Cutting with the edge instead of the spine allows all locks to pass with flying colors . You are arguing with a group that is less practical than a D&D campaign.

made me laugh, but so true

[Cliff Stamp]

But I prefer the every day ease of use and reliability that the regular back lock offers.

Have you found them to be superior to the Tri-Ad in those respects. I have not seen a lot of complaints on that lot in general.

[jabba359]

Have you found them to be superior to the Tri-Ad in those respects. I have not seen a lot of complaints on that lot in general.

I worded it poorly. The reliability was intended to connote equally reliable (neither lock is particularly prone to failure). As for ease of use, I didn't mean specifically the lock mechanism, but the overall knife package. Slimmer, lighter knives tend to work better for me and my tasks, while the Tri-Ad lock comes in knives that are all too large and unwieldy for my needs.

My brain thinks much faster than my fingers type, so I tend to be a fairly poor communicator in the written word. I should probably re-read my posts for clarity before clicking that "post reply" button. :rolleyes:

[D1omedes]

I find Spyderco lockbacks to work just fine for my EDC needs. Like JD stated, if you need to use a knife hard just get a fixed blade. Anyone who wants to claim that a folder can equal the strength of a fixed blade is just not worth the time.

[chuck_roxas45]

I find Spyderco lockbacks to work just fine for my EDC needs.

You and me both. :)

Like JD stated, if you need to use a knife hard just get a fixed blade.

I think that most of the guys who want the stronger locks are the guys who look at their folders as an SD option. SD use can't be anticipated so carrying a fixed blade might not be an option. The strongest fixed blades won't be much use in such a situation if it's at home. You'll just want the strongest, most convenient knife to carry all of the time, which equals a strong folder.

Anyone who wants to claim that a folder can equal the strength of a fixed blade is just not worth the time.

I don't think anybody claims that a folder can equal the strength of a fixed blade for one time SHTF use, but some folders are getting to the point that they are almost as practical as fixed blades for these situations. However likely or unlikely you might think they are to occur. It just comes down to philosophy of use.