Japanese now exporting steels?

D1omedes · #1

Hey guys. I have seen two things that have made me scratch my head in puzzlement. Sal has explained to us that Japanese foundries are not willing to export steels (ie. ZDP and VG10). I have never questioned this and believe he is telling us the truth.

But I have seen two companies, Kershaw and A.G. Russell Knives, that have used Japanese steel on knives that are not manufactured in Japan. Kershaw has released U.S.-made sprints with ZDP and A.G. Russell has just released a Gentleman's Titanium Frame Lock that has VG10 but is manufactured in China.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Has there been news of Hitachi and other Japanese steel makers changing their stance on this? I haven't been around for several months now.

Blerv · #2

With the exception of H1 (in most cases) I understand they are fine with exporting it. It's just not economically feasible for Spyderco's pricing model. Some of the knives you mentioned seem to have higher retail pricing which I guess is how its justified.

The biggest problem that is brought up is a Japanese maker using American products. Again, just as I understand this is not culturally accepted. Maybe a big client could push it to happen but the intrinsic expense to the relationship prob wouldn't make sense. Economically it so wouldn't make the knife any cheaper so a S90v Delica vs a ZDP-189 or Super blue I don't know would be worth the hassle (if possible).

Pinetreebbs · #3

The could have the blades fabricated/partially fabricated in Japan and assemble the knives in the US.

The Deacon · #4

Japan has been exporting steel for years. Spyderco has used GIN-1 and ATS-34 on knives made in Golden and, IIRC, the first knife company to use ZDP-189 was William Henry.

mattman · #5

I may be way off, here, but I think their reluctance to use imported steels is related to the terms of the WW2 peace treaty, where I believe they were prohibited from importing any steel, to prevent them from rebuilding their military might...

this question/subject always makes me want to research further, but I never get a round tuit.

D1omedes · #6

Ah, thank you guys. My brain got the facts messed up (as expected :p ). I forgot that the issue was not being able to have them work on non-Japanese steels. So I suppose the reason we will never see a ZDP Para 2 is due to the yen-dollar conversion?

Steeldreams · #7

I'm pretty sure kershaw is able to use zdp because they are owned by KAI which is Japanese owned.

JNewell · #8

Steeldreams wrote:I'm pretty sure kershaw is able to use zdp because they are owned by KAI which is Japanese owned.

Yes...Kershaw doesn't count... :)

Blerv · #9

I just think a ZDP would be more confusing and expensive than its worth with Crucible and Carpenter around the corner.

#10

Hi D1omedes,

As Deacon mentioned, Japan has exported klnife steel in the past. Hitachi is reluctant to export ZDP because they say it required special heat treat that only their trained heat treaters can do. I understand that Kershaw / Kai has been able to bring in and use ZDP in the US.

Japan was also reluctant to export blade steel to China, but the last time I was there, many of the makers in China claimed that they can get and use VG-10.

sal

D1omedes · #11

Hi Sal,

I remember you mentioning that BD1 was Carpenter's version of GIN-1. Is it possible that Carpenter could make an American version of VG10? I have no clue if this is even possible or permissible. Could you share some insight on that?

Thanks. :D

bh49 · #12

About a year ago I saw in IKEA Chinese made kitchen knives with Damascus and VG10 core.

#13

I imagine that Carpenter could make a VG-10 chemistry, but I question the need for it or who would buy it. BU is making N690Co which is similar to VG-10. We use it with a European maker. There is plenty of it here in the states, but none of the factories have picked it up. For our US production, we're using S30V, S35VN, S90V, S110V from Crucible and some of the Carpenter steels; BD1, XHP ande some short run stuff still being tested. We also ship steels to Taiwan.

Carpenter is still deciding which steels to make and inventory. The Boutique steels used for the kife industry are really not large quantities for big foundries so it's difficult to make and stock too many.

sal

AKWolf · #14

Yes, Taiwan definitely has VG10 , as I have bought some value 240mm Gyutos for a fair price recently.

D1omedes · #15

I just ask because I love VG10 as an EDC steel. I would have been more excited if Carpenter made a U.S. version of VG10 rather than GIN-1. That said, I am speaking from a knife-afi perspective, not a big business perspective. Still, I have seen videos of Ed Schempp discuss the purpose of VG10 in Japan's agriculture industry. Could a U.S. version of VG10 have the same purpose on American farms?

Or is it that Carpenter would rather spend their efforts on short runs of very advanced steels (ie. CTS 20CP)?

Chipped Karambit · #16

sal wrote:, we're using S30V, S35VN, S90V, S110V

sal

Is that a forecast of S110v in the future I see?

tomoto · #17

Chipped Karambit wrote:Is that a forecast of S110v in the future I see?

good eye

JNewell · #18

Chipped Karambit wrote:Is that a forecast of S110v in the future I see?

I think a Native 5 with S110V has already been announced, at least informally. I might be mis-remembering, it does happen...

D1omedes · #19

JNewell wrote:I think a Native 5 with S110V has already been announced, at least informally. I might be mis-remembering, it does happen...

Yes, I am pretty sure Sal confirmed a CF/S110V Native 5 sprint is in the works.

The Mastiff · #20

Yes, I am pretty sure Sal confirmed a CF/S110V Native 5 sprint is in the works.

Each year they somehow seem to out do the last. No disrespect to any other companies but I'm exactly where I need to be.

Do I fit into Spyderco, or does it fit me? It's a quandary. :)

I wish all my problems were this good!

If I had more money there is a good chance I would just spend it here on Spydercos. Still, I wouldn't mind having that choice, tough as it would be. :)

Joe