Para 2, minor S/S play normal?

[deep6]

I have a newer Para 2 that has minimal side to side play, it has only been lightly used. I tried to tighten the pivot but the screw would not budge with the prudent force I was using. I think the bushing system has something to do with it, maybe you guys in the know can confirm this. It does not really bother me too much, I'm just curious. Thanks.

[Evil D]

I've owned three Para 2's, all three were perfect out of the box and all three eventually developed side to side play. By "play" i mean if you jiggled the blade and knew what you were feeling for, you could feel the blade move in the pivot. To the average person, the pivots were/are perfectly tight and you would never feel any of it through use. My 20CP version has the pivot completely bottomed out, i actually twisted a torx bit trying to tighten it more. I just leave it alone until the day comes that it develops enough play that it bothers me, and then i'll send it back in to let Spyderco deal with it. I'm sure i could mod it and get rid of the play, but it's not enough nuisance to bother with yet.

[deep6]

Thanks Evil, I agree.

[Evil D]

To further ease your conscience, my first Para 2, i took apart and set out to acid edge the blade. Well, long story short I left it in ferric chloride too long and it ate away just enough steel to create a crap load of play in the pivot, in every direction. It was so bad that the lock tab completely bottomed out and you could hold the knife in one hand and shake it and the blade would jiggle. Amazingly though, that lock was still solid enough that it would've been fit to use safely, but the up and down play bothered me so i sold it.

I think the big problem is that Spyderco is trying to walk the line between silky smooth pivots and eliminating blade play. The "problem" is that they've found the sweet spot in the factory, but once the knife/pivot is broken in, play develops. This is easy enough to adjust out through the pivot screw, but I think some of the tolerances sway one way or another and on some knives the pivot just can't be tightened any further to dial out the play (such as on my 20CP). I have no doubt that simply sanding a tiny bit of the sides of the bushing would take care of this and I could adjust the pivot to my liking, but again it's not a big deal until i can feel the play through use.

[phaust]

I think the big problem is that Spyderco is trying to walk the line between silky smooth pivots and eliminating blade play. The "problem" is that they've found the sweet spot in the factory, but once the knife/pivot is broken in, play develops. This is easy enough to adjust out through the pivot screw, but I think some of the tolerances sway one way or another and on some knives the pivot just can't be tightened any further to dial out the play (such as on my 20CP).

This is not quite correct I don't believe. Breaking in means polishing--removing some metal--where the washers and from the washers themselves. On a Sebenza, for instance, this is a problem over time because the pivot bushing's size in relation to the thickness of the washers and where the washers touch the blade determines whether there is play, how freely it swings when fully tightened down. As material is worn off the washers/blade, tightening down the pivot no longer squishes the washers between blade and liners as tightly as it did when it was new. That's why you hear about decade and older Sebs getting sent in to be refitted with washers.

Spyderco's system is different, however. The washers in Spyderco's pivot bushing system are sandwiched between the bushing and the liners (which is not the case with the Chris Reeve style pivot bushing, where the washers are sandwiched only between blade and liners, not by the bushing), so anything worn off over time from the washers or blade at the washers allows you to tighten the pivot down further. It is self-adjusting in this regard.

[jon1all]

You might also check your frame screws. When/if they get loose it can affect blade play. This happened to me with one of my Para2s and once I tightened up the frame screws blade play was nil again (like it was when I first got it). Try it and see....

[Gunslinger]

I've owned three Para 2's, all three were perfect out of the box and all three eventually developed side to side play. By "play" i mean if you jiggled the blade and knew what you were feeling for, you could feel the blade move in the pivot. To the average person, the pivots were/are perfectly tight and you would never feel any of it through use. My 20CP version has the pivot completely bottomed out, i actually twisted a torx bit trying to tighten it more. I just leave it alone until the day comes that it develops enough play that it bothers me, and then i'll send it back in to let Spyderco deal with it. I'm sure i could mod it and get rid of the play, but it's not enough nuisance to bother with yet.

My 20CP Para2 had the exact same issue, I tightened the pivet and the screw next to it and still had some play. I'll let mine be as well.

[Zenith]

This is not something new. A quick search in google (side to side play in para2) reveals a bunch of threads.

IMO. This does not affect the function or safety of the knife. It seems to be a normal occurrence with the new pivot bushing design.

From talking to many knife makers a knife is a strange thing, especially a folder. One of the best things I have heard is:

You make the knife perfect, everything is smooth and you go to bed with a feeling of satisfaction. The next morning the action is gritty, the blade is not centered, everything just wrong and you ask "what happened? You had a bad night? Your a knife!"

So dont worry to much about the little side to side, it might just be the knife had a bad night after it left the factory :)

[Slash]

It comes down to trying to find thicker washers or (not recommended) sanding the bushing and/or screw if it bottoms out. Don't really care to try either nor figure out which would be the possible culprit.

If it's not broke...don't fix it.

[deep6]

It does not bother me, the play is minimal. If it gets worse, I'll send it in. I was just wondering if this was inherent to the bushing system. All the screws are tight.

[Chipped Karambit]

Adjust the pivot and the bolt right behind it(Top one) Both of those correlate on mine. I had some and I tightened that one and loosened to get it perfectly for me.

[Blerv]

If within tolerable specs blade-play is annoying but completely safe. Some people have much more sensitive preferences to this, others need it to literally be rattling to care.

I never check it with my hands. If it's annoying while cutting I would likely send it in and see if something can be done.

[jackknifeh]

This is not quite correct I don't believe. Breaking in means polishing--removing some metal--where the washers and from the washers themselves. On a Sebenza, for instance, this is a problem over time because the pivot bushing's size in relation to the thickness of the washers and where the washers touch the blade determines whether there is play, how freely it swings when fully tightened down. As material is worn off the washers/blade, tightening down the pivot no longer squishes the washers between blade and liners as tightly as it did when it was new. That's why you hear about decade and older Sebs getting sent in to be refitted with washers.

Spyderco's system is different, however. The washers in Spyderco's pivot bushing system are sandwiched between the bushing and the liners (which is not the case with the Chris Reeve style pivot bushing, where the washers are sandwiched only between blade and liners, not by the bushing), so anything worn off over time from the washers or blade at the washers allows you to tighten the pivot down further. It is self-adjusting in this regard.

I THINK I know what you are saying here. If so, Spyderco's pivots are different from knife to knife. Or are you just talking about the Para2? The Manix2 has the washer between the liner and pivot pin (with a small portion of the pivot pin going through the washer and liner). I believe this is where "bushing" comes into play. :confused: My GB has the pivot pin through the washer so the blade tang squishes the washer between it and the liner. I think this is why the Manix2 pivot screws could be completely tight and my blade would swing freely and also have NO blade play (excellent design and manufacturing). You can tighten the GB pivot screws so the blade won't move. I think I'd prefer this so play can be adjusted over time. Locks are made self adjusting (sometimes). I think the pivot should be also.

I think blade play will be a part of folding knives forever. Even knives of the same model are not perfectly identical it seems.

[Vicinadp]

I got a question about one of my para 2's. Ive flicked it open easily 50,000 times I used to flick that knife constantly and exclusively and I was wondering if the late lockup and up and down/rock lock would have to do with the extensive flicking? Also wondering if there is anything I can do to fix it?

[jackknifeh]

I got a question about one of my para 2's. Ive flicked it open easily 50,000 times I used to flick that knife constantly and exclusively and I was wondering if the late lockup and up and down/rock lock would have to do with the extensive flicking? Also wondering if there is anything I can do to fix it?

I wouldn't know how to fix it but I remember once I had my new ink pen and was flicking it constantly just playing with it (I was about 11 years old). My dad said out of the blue "EVERYTHING ONLY HAS SO MANY CLICKS IN IT." That's all he said and I kept clicking my pen. It's funny what you remeber. :) I bet a truer statement has never been made though. :D Anything with friction and slamming stops only has so much in it maybe. :) I have heard several people say flicking a blade open is much harder on it than just opening it with a controlled thumb opening. It does make sense IMO.

[RevDevil]

I got a question about one of my para 2's. Ive flicked it open easily 50,000 times I used to flick that knife constantly and exclusively and I was wondering if the late lockup and up and down/rock lock would have to do with the extensive flicking? Also wondering if there is anything I can do to fix it?

Buy some worry/prayer beads. I never really understood the incessant need to continually flick knives open and closed constantly. In my opinion, accelerated wear caused by "playing around" shouldn't be covered by warranty. It's impossible to say if anything can be done about it, you need to send your worry beads into Spyderco so they can perform an evaluation.

[chuck_roxas45]

Buy some worry/prayer beads. I never really understood the incessant need to continually flick knives open and closed constantly. In my opinion, accelerated wear caused by "playing around" shouldn't be covered by warranty. It's impossible to say if anything can be done about it, you need to send your worry beads into Spyderco so they can perform an evaluation.

This!

[Vicinadp]

I mean I dont intend on sending it in to spyderco for the warranty because it was clearly 110% my fault. And thanks for the troll.

[chuck_roxas45]

I mean I dont intend on sending it in to spyderco for the warranty because it was clearly 110% my fault. And thanks for the troll.

Yep, it's always a troll when you hear things you don't like.

[arjay18]

Buy some worry/prayer beads. I never really understood the incessant need to continually flick knives open and closed constantly. In my opinion, accelerated wear caused by "playing around" shouldn't be covered by warranty. It's impossible to say if anything can be done about it, you need to send your worry beads into Spyderco so they can perform an evaluation.

I do! It's quite fun. :D