first supersteel blade,lockback observations (Dfly 2)

[suedeface]

My wife bought me a ZDP dragonfly 2 recently, and have a few observations and questions:

Is ZDP really that brittle? I haven't used it yet, but when I do I almost feel like i should treat it like a ceramic blade from what I've read some places. Also, with these "super steels" is the process of "steeling" back the edge futile with this steel as it breaks and micro-chips away instead of folding, blunting, and rolling preventing the damaged steel to be realigned as it is just gone? And, although I still maintain my tools well, if left unattended, will ZDP rust easily?

Now a few other things I noticed, lockback mechanism-wise. Some may consider this a manufacturing defect, but as i noticed the lock bar on my Dfly sits above the scales of the knife a small bit. It's not perfectly aligned, but still locks up loud and solid. What I really noticed was that although the lock bar stood proud of the scales a bit, and didn't seem to impede function, there was no up-down play detected. I have a few other spyderco's I bought within the last year or two(D4 FFG, salt 1 ) that were perfectly flat as far as the lockbar/scales were concerned, but had a decent amount of up, down play out of box. None of these have ever failed me in use however.
So, I'm assuming with my decent manufacturing experience, that varying wear in the tools that cut the surfaces for the lockback mating surfaces wear obviously over time, so on one end you get a knife like my ZDP Dfly, sits above scales= no play, to on the other end of tool wear, flush with scales= differing amounts of play, before the tools need to be changed and it's out of spec. Maybe I'm just making this more complicated than it is but who knows..

One last thing. I noticed that in most of my spyderco lockbacks, the spring is usually nice & shiny( mostly on the salt models and my ZDP model, not so much on my VG-10 ones) So I have to wonder what type of steel the lockbar springs are made of? Are they heat treated, or work hardened? I know the lockbar itself is usually made from the same material as the blade for even wear, but haven't heard what the springs consisted of.

So, that's it for now. I should probably mention that I love the knife and may do a review soon as time permits. i don't post often, but when i do I like to make it count! Thank you ahead of time for your answers.

[spyderedge]

Steeling is using a kitchen knife steel to make all the micro nuts uniform.

[FLYBYU44]

There are small amounts of play in any lockback mechanism. In order for the lockbar and blade to interface there needs to be a bit of clearance there. You probably can't feel play in the Dragonfly because the blade is much shorter and thus would have much less leverage then say an Endura.

[jackknifeh]

I don't care for "steeling" a knife edge myself. That may be because I'm not very good at it. When someone who knows how to do it they end up with good results and make it look easy. My results are never good. Lack of skill or practice I'm sure. I would say never use a steel "steel". Use a ceramic "steel".

If you are talking about steeling only ZDP I would think it may be bad to "roll" a rolled edge back straight. I think it may break off easier than softer steels. I would rather use a very fine grit stone. In my experience ZDP-189 is more brittle than VG-10, S30V and a couple of others that I am familiar with. I have a ZDP Manbug now that I've carried for a few months and had NO problems at all. I do however, keep the edge angle at 36 to 40 degrees inclusive. I wouldn't suggest sharpening ZDP with a lower edge bevel. You can lower a back bevel to thin the blade a little if you want. I would use the D'fly as you would any other knife and see how the edge holds up as far as chipping goes. When the edge angle is around 30 degrees or lower I have experienced micro chips on the edge. These chips are small enough that they don't hinder the knife's performance at all. Plus, any steel will chip a little depending on use. The next knife I get is going to be the ZDP D'fly. Being a small EDC knife there is no telling what it will be required to cut. So I wouldn't get the ZDP blade if I were worried about it being TOO prone to chipping. Or the D'fly salt. :confused: :) I'm thinking if I don't get the ZDP for edge retention I'd like the salt to have a knife as resistant to corrosion as possible. I had a Pacific salt but it was a little large for EDC for me. I have always wanted a Dragonfly, just never got one. As punishment maybe I should sentence myself to getting the ZDP model AND the salt. I think that punishment fits the crime of waiting. :D

Use your knife. Personally, I'd like to hear how you like it in a month or two. Have you sharpened it yet? If not, when you do just keep the edge angle around 40 degrees inclusive and you should be fine as far as micro-chipping. Some say they have had success with ZDP at lower edge angles. This of course is going to depend on how one uses their knife. If you cut a lot of cinder blocks into little pieces you need to keep the edge at 40 degrees. :)

[suedeface]

I usually use the 40 degree setting for all my users. Sal said it himself that 40 is the perfect compromise of sharpness and edge holding ability. I've used this on my FFG D4 for about 2 years now and it seems to work fine. After several sharpenings I'll do about 12 passes on each side of the blade on the 30 deg. setting just to take the shoulders off the edge for better performance.
As far as the ZDP dfly 2, and the salt dfly, I would personally go with the ZDP version. I wasn't sure about it at first, as I always liked the VG-10 and prefer black handles, but the knife came sharper than many knives I've had in the past, had a great grind, finish and lock up, and the british racing green handles are actually a very nice color (hard to tell accurately from internet pics, but trust me it's nice). I used to have a salt Dfly, but sold it as I couldn't warm up to the "bright" yellow handles or the hollow grind. The FFG on this model is a must for me now. So there is my suggestion as far as those models go. (If you dont have a salt 1 yet, I would get that instead. Choice of handle colors and is just a bit smaller than a D4.)

[Blerv]

If you treat ZDP like a ceramic or glass blade (I do) you likely won't experience the chipping. It's not as horrible ask people say, at least not for the insane hardness.

With the exception of steels like CPM-M4 (and such) folder steels are generally very brittle. Even m4 isn't tough compared to spring steel. Grind, sharpening techniques, application, and user can separate the chippy from the non. :)

[Cliff Stamp]

Is ZDP really that brittle?

Not as much as implied. The main problem is that a lot of people will use a blade as-boxed, have a problem and then conclude that it is the problem of the steel. The best procedure would be to sharpen a couple of times, repeat the work and see if it continues. In most cases just sharpening resolves the problem.

If you look at the recent YT video (referenced in a thread here) you will see a ZDP-189 Delica at 6.5 dps cutting through a variety of materials including plywood with no issues.

As a general rule if steels are having problems with being brittle often it is due to the way they are being sharpened which leads to :

Also, with these "super steels" is the process of "steeling" back the edge futile with this steel as it breaks and micro-chips away instead of folding, blunting, and rolling preventing the damaged steel to be realigned as it is just gone?

ZDP can be steeled, the edge will roll, however if you are having concerns about chipping steeling is not a good idea, nor is stropping because these push deformed material back onto the edge which is then left in a stressed state and is prone to chipping. Generally the only steels which respond well to that are the ones which are fairly soft and/or used very light.

And, although I still maintain my tools well, if left unattended, will ZDP rust easily?

ZDP does not have the corrosion resistance of the low carbide stainless steels like 420HC, it can spot/rust similar to ATS-34/VG-10 steels and would not be considered dishwasher safe for example.