Going to Brazil, knife recomendations

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lesh
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Going to Brazil, knife recomendations

#1

Post by lesh »

Does anyone know what the knife laws are in Brazil. I am visiting next month, and cant seem to find anything definitive on line.

Thanks,
Les
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phillipsted
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#2

Post by phillipsted »

They are pretty strict. Nothing less than than an 18" blade is allowed in the Amazon rainforest. :rolleyes:

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Pockets
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#3

Post by Pockets »

There might be some Brazilian forumites here somewhere...
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oneunder
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#4

Post by oneunder »

lesh wrote:Does anyone know what the knife laws are in Brazil. I am visiting next month, and cant seem to find anything definitive on line.

Thanks,
Les
It may depend on who controls you, but I understood that the general idea in south america (at least in Bolivia where I went) was that blades were ok as long as they were purposeful. As a backpacker, it is justifiable to have a folder. A general good practice when traveling is to keep your knife in a pocket of your bag instead of wearing it on yourself, that's all. Better bring a cheap knife you won't regret too much, just in case.
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#5

Post by jnichols2 »

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... -of-knives
This says you can carry any knife you want except military swords and bayonets.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 130AASrkFd
This says you can't even carry a pocket knife.

I guess I wasn't a lot of help, was I?
Seriously; I don't recommend carrying anything that could be considered a weapon in any foriegn country.
The laws are different, and so are the consequences.
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#6

Post by ChaoticLuck »

http://www.jusbrasil.com.br/jurispruden ... 50-df-tjdf

I'm on a tablet and a page translator isn't working, but I believe this is a specific law for knives, length, and shape. Hope this helps.
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#7

Post by canivete »

The link ChaoticLuck provide is a good one.
There'arent any law against knives in Brazil. You can carry what you want, but not in bars, banks, clubs and public events as soccer games.
Airplanes follow international rules, then no knives while flying.
Theoretically you can carry whatever knife - thing common sense- you want. But an leo could object about an ostensive "maybe weapon" that look out of place.
Carry prudently, don´t do stupid things and you would not have problem.
Feel free to e-mail me: g.leao at mps.com.br
Enjoy your travel.
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#8

Post by smikesmith3 »

A tip when flying with a Spydie...get yourself a grooming bag with a zipper (unless you already have one). Literally zip tie the knife through the spydie hole and then into the zipper hole then tuck it inside your groom bag inside a pocket of your luggage. It keeps the airport honest since it would take way too much work get it out and if any questions, it is how you shave! Never lost one yet.
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#9

Post by jabba359 »

canivete wrote:The link ChaoticLuck provide is a good one.
There'arent any law against knives in Brazil. You can carry what you want, but not in bars, banks, clubs and public events as soccer games.
Airplanes follow international rules, then no knives while flying.
Theoretically you can carry whatever knife - thing common sense- you want. But an leo could object about an ostensive "maybe weapon" that look out of place.
Carry prudently, don´t do stupid things and you would not have problem.
Feel free to e-mail me: g.leao at mps.com.br
Enjoy your travel.
It's been a little over a decade since I lived there, but it seems the rules are still the same according to canivete. I carried every day and think someone lifted my Q while I was riding on a crowded bus. I had a cheap backup for my Spyderco that I carried once it 'disappeared' and I never once had a problem with the policia. Of course, this was also back in the day when I could (and did) carry my knives, clipped to my pocket, onto the plane to and from Brazil. I wouldn't recommend trying that nowadays, however... ;)
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#10

Post by dman62 »

SAK. Hard to call one a weapon and a can opener is handy.
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phillipsted
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#11

Post by phillipsted »

smikesmith3 wrote:A tip when flying with a Spydie...get yourself a grooming bag with a zipper (unless you already have one). Literally zip tie the knife through the spydie hole and then into the zipper hole then tuck it inside your groom bag inside a pocket of your luggage. It keeps the airport honest since it would take way too much work get it out and if any questions, it is how you shave! Never lost one yet.
Good tip. I usually put my Spydies in a zip lock bag and stuff it in the toe of my packed shoes. Then I stuff a sock in the shoe - and put the shoes in a carry bag. You are right. If you make it tough to access the knife - it might take too much time for the dishonest handler to dig out...

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#12

Post by canivete »

Another good tip from Kyle. If riding on a crowded bus, watch out your pockets.
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Blerv
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#13

Post by Blerv »

Best is to carry something you wouldn't care to donate if asked. Bug, Honeybee, etc.

If you are going to be there a long while its worth looking into things closer.
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#14

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

Blerv wrote:Best is to carry something you wouldn't care to donate if asked. Bug, Honeybee, etc.

If you are going to be there a long while its worth looking into things closer.

This one.

Might also be a good idea to just pick up something cheap when you get there.
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#15

Post by Blerv »

chuck_roxas45 wrote:This one.

Might also be a good idea to just pick up something cheap when you get there.
Oh good call :) You might find something very cool and unique.

I don't mind being a tourist but know to tread a bit more lightly. Until I know the vibe and how things tend to work at least. Getting in trouble seems easy enough not knowing a language without the perception of carrying "weapons".
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#16

Post by nuubee »

This won't be of much help, but when I was there in May, I decided not to take a chance, and didn't try to take any knives. My partner, who is Brazilian, has previously said that "only thieves and criminals carry knives in Brazil, and none of my friends carry knives", so I decided not to buck apparent cultural values, and went blade-less for the trip. Another Brazilian friend (an extremely kind man) was constantly laughing at me whenever I pulled out something as simple as a flashlight or pocket handkerchief. My one piece of advice for international trips: don't take anything that might possibly get you in trouble, and don't take anything that would be irreplaceable/would get you upset losing, or getting stolen. No overly expensive/scarce flashlights, or watches, or jewelry that would get you noticed. You are going to stick out as a non-Brazilian, and that will make you more likely to be a target for theft/mugging. Having said that, enjoy your trip! It can be humid, depending on where you are, and I was constantly whipping out a cheap handkerchief to mop my brow. Get an affordable easy-to-carry point-and-shoot with a decent memory-card you can easily carry in a pocket, and don't worry about looking like a gringo when you are constantly taking pictures from different perspectives. You will appreciate having tons of shots when you get back home. Brazil has an amazing culture. Have fun!
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#17

Post by Divo »

If I'm right informed some time ago they have changed the laws for "Arma Branca". That regulates all that can be used/seen as what we call a small weapon. Maybe this explains the contradictive information others found already.

Also I heard that the rules are improvised by policeofficers. If they dont like the size of your knife, they simply say its too large and you loose it. Other policeofficers maybe like your knife and in that way you loose it too . . .

If you want to be sure about current laws, you best contact the Brazilian Ambassy or tourist organisation in your country and/or the Ambassy of your country in Brazil.

Personally, to avoid problems, I would bring nothing with me.
In almost every bank they have metaldetectors, places to avoid large knifes in general.
lesh
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#18

Post by lesh »

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Les
canivete
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#19

Post by canivete »

The laws were not changed at all.
You're right in that *some* *bad* officers can improvise the rules. But i´ve carried folders and fixed blades for years and have yet to be searched or looked bad.
(I live in a city with around 2 million persons)
Use common sense, stay sober at public spaces, be polite, and you would not have any problems.
I carry a meadowlark or a folder by Dobruski (3" blade) and one little pikal fixed. But, as already stated, a SAK never will be looked as an weapon.
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#20

Post by Divo »

Rough translation :)

O PORTE DE ARMA BRANCA

Arma em sentido genérico é todo objeto ou utensílio capaz de lesionar ou matar, qualquer que seja sua forma ou destinação. O que caracteriza a arma, é a potencialidade ofensiva é a circunstância de haver sido especialmente fabricada para o fim de servir de instrumento de ataque ou defesa (próprias e impróprias).


As armas próprias são aquelas destinadas especificamente à finalidade ofensiva (ex.: arma de fogo), e as armas impróprias são aquelas que eventualmente podem ser utilizadas como arma (ex.: chave de fenda, faca, canivete).


Inúmeros são os objetos que possuem potencialidade ofensiva podendo ser utilizados como arma, sem necessariamente sê-los. Nas armas brancas, apenas os punhais e adagas possuem essa característica ofensiva, as facas e canivetes devem ser considerados a princípio como instrumento útil e necessário, uma ferramenta.
As facas, canivetes, punhais e adagas são denominados "arma branca" através do Decreto 3.665/2000, que assim a define:

"art.º 3.....
XI - arma branca: artefato cortante ou perfurante, normalmente constituído por peça em lâmina ou oblonga;"

O porte de arma ilegal está relacionado diretamente às armas que dependam de prévia licença da autoridade administrativa (arma de fogo), ou tenham sua proibição definida em lei.

A inexistência de licença para o porte de arma branca e a falta de legislação específica, torna o fato atípico, pois não existe obrigatoriedade de requerer licença da autoridade administrativa para o comércio, compra e posse de "arma branca", ou guia de tráfego para seu transporte.

A lei das contravenções penais, em seu art. 19 (Decreto-Lei Nº 3.688/41) não pode ser interpretada com discriminação pelas autoridades policiais permitindo que alguns portem por necessidade (feirante, ambulante, peão e etc...) e o cidadão que não comprovar essa necessidade, seja tratado como um contraventor. Essa absurda interpretação da lei é muito comum entre os policiais, que por falta de orientação e desconhecimento da lei prendem o cidadão que porta uma faca ou canivete, causando grandes transtornos para o mesmo.

"Art. 19. Trazer consigo arma fora de casa ou de dependência desta, sem licença da autoridade:
Pena - prisão simples, de quinze dias a seis meses, ou multa, de duzentos mil réis a três contos de réis, ou ambas cumulativamente.
§ 1º A pena é aumentada de um terço até metade, se o agente já foi condenado, em sentença irrecorrível, por violência contra pessoa.
§ 2º Incorre na pena de prisão simples, de quinze dias a três meses, ou multa, de duzentos mil réis a um conto de réis, quem, possuindo arma ou munição:
a) deixa de fazer comunicação ou entrega à autoridade, quando a lei o determina;
b) permite que alienado menor de 18 anos ou pessoa inexperiente no manejo de arma a tenha consigo;
c) omite as cautelas necessárias para impedir que dela se apodere facilmente alienado, menor de 18 anos ou pessoa inexperiente em manejá-la."

Analisando o art. 19 da Lei das Contravenções Penais, vejo que a intenção do legislador era claramente normatizar o porte de arma de fogo. O artigo mencionado, em seu parágrafo 2º e incisos, deixa claro a intenção do legislador em regulamentar o porte específico de arma de fogo, onde deveria ter sido incluído no caput "trazer consigo arma de fogo...", pois o mesmo cita nos incisos as cautelas necessárias que devemos ter com as armas de fogo não tendo no texto da legislação nenhuma menção à arma branca.

Facas e canivetes deveriam ser vistos como ferramentas, mas são definidos por lei como "arma branca" pelo R-105 (Decreto 3.665/2000), e mal interpretado pelas autoridades que utilizam a Lei das Contravenções Penais para punir/restringir o seu uso, sendo que muitas vezes não sabem distinguir porte de transporte. Portar arma é trazer consigo a mesma para uso imediato e o transporte visa mudar o objeto material de lugar.

As adagas e punhais são considerados arma própria, porém, o seu portador mesmo que esteja com a intenção de lesionar ou matar não poderá ser preso pelo porte de arma branca, responde apenas pelos atos ilegais praticados. Algumas autoridades policiais, como medida preventiva, apreendem as adagas e punhais dependendo da situação mas o proprietário não poderá ser preso por porte ilegal de arma, pois não existe legislação que restrinja o porte de arma branca, mesmo esta sendo considerada arma própria.

A Constituição federal estabelece em seu artigo 5º, inciso II:
"II - ninguém será obrigado a fazer ou deixar de fazer alguma coisa senão em virtude de lei;"

Dessa forma, entendo que qualquer cidadão tem o direito de portar ou transportar qualquer tipo de arma branca sem o semblante da ilegalidade, mas com a consciência de que existem lugares próprios para cada tipo de ferramenta sem ofender ou agredir outras pessoas, ou seja, o porte nos centros urbanos deve ser discreto, diferentemente da área rural onde o seu uso é ostensivo e rotineiro.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapon in the generic sense is any object or tool able to injure or kill, whatever its form or destination. What characterizes the weapon, is the offensive capability is the condition of having been especially manufactured for the purpose of serving as an instrument of attack or Defense (and unsuitable).


Own weapons are those designed specifically to offensive purpose (e.g., firearm), and inappropriate weapons are those that eventually can be used as a weapon (e.g. screwdriver, knife, Pocket knife).


Numerous are the objects that have offensive capability and can be used as a weapon, without necessarily become them. In the melee weapons, only daggers and Dirks have that feature offensive, knives and Pocket knives should be considered primarily as a useful and necessary tool.
Knives, Pocket knives, daggers and Dirks are called "bayonet" through Decree 3,665/2000, that so defines it:

"article 3 ...
XI-melee weapon: cutting or piercing artifact, usually consisting of a blade or oblong piece; "

The illegal gun possession is directly related to the weapons that rely on prior license from administrative authority (firearm), or have their prohibition set in law.

No license to carry melee weapon and the lack of specific legislation, the fact is atypical, because there is no obligation to apply administrative authority license to trade, purchase and possession of "bayonet", or guide traffic to their transportation.

The law of criminal misdemeanors, in his art. 19 (Decree-Law No. 41/3,688) cannot be interpreted with discrimination by the police authorities allowing some carry out of necessity (marketer, itinerant, pawn, etc ...) and the citizen who does not demonstrate this need, be treated as an offender. This absurd interpretation of the law is very common among the police, that because of lack of guidance and ignorance of the law relate to the citizen which port a knife or penknife, causing great inconvenience to the same.

"Art. 19. bring gun outside the home or dependency, without license of authority:
Worth-simple imprisonment of 15 days to six months, or a fine of two hundred thousand réis three contos de Reis, or both cumulatively.
(1) the penalty is increased by one third to one half if the agent has already been convicted in final sentence for violence against the person.
§2 Incurs in simple imprisonment from fifteen days to three months, or a fine of two hundred thousand réis a tale of Reis, who, having a gun or ammunition:
the) stops making communication or delivery to the authority, when the law determines;
b) enables alienated under 18 years or inexperienced person in the handling of the weapon has with you;
c) omits the precautions necessary to prevent her estranged easily commercialization, less than 18 years old or inexperienced person to handle it. "

Analyzing the art. 19 of the law of Criminal Misdemeanors, I see that the intention of the legislator was clearly regulate the possession of firearms. The article mentioned, in its paragraph 2 and items, makes clear the intention of the legislator to regulate the specific size of the firearm, where it should have been included in the heading "bring firearm ...", because the same quotes in subheadings itmustadoptthe we have with not having firearms in the text of the legislation no mention of melee weapon.

Knives and Pocket knives should be seen as tools, but are defined by law as "melee weapon" by R-105 (Decree 3,665/2000), and misinterpreted by the authorities using Criminal Misdemeanors law to punish/restrict its use, and often do not know to distinguish transport waybill. Carry weapon is bring the same for immediate use and transport aims to change the material object.

The Dirks and daggers are considered their own weapon, but your carrier even if it is with the intention to injure or kill may not be arrested for possession of melee weapon, responds only by illegal acts committed. Some law enforcement authorities, as a precautionary measure, seize the Dirks and daggers depending on the situation but it cannot be arrested for illegal gun possession, because there is no legislation that restricts the size of melee weapon, even being considered a weapon of its own.

The federal Constitution establishes in its article 5, item II:
"II-no one will be required to do or not do something except by virtue of law;"

Thus, I believe that any citizen has the right to bear or carry any sort of melee weapon without the countenance of illegality, but with the awareness that there are places suitable for each type of tool without offending or harming other people, i.e. the companies in urban centres should be discreet, unlike rural area where its use is ostentatious and routine.

Source: www camachoknives.com/porte.html
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