Angle guides for free hand sharpening

[jackknifeh]

When free-hand sharpening is there a way to know how to set an angle to 15° per side? Or is it just a matter of experience to get it close? I plan on profiling a knife free-hand as best I can with a goal of 15° per side. Then I'll check it with my EP to see how close I got. Doing that for a few knives should train me to be able to get close enough. I understand a very talented free-hand sharpener can hit the bevel at the same angle +/- 1° on each stroke. But, do they know what angle they are setting the bevel to? Or do you just know it is thin, Med. or thick which might equal 24° or 30° or 40° inclusive?

Any help is appreciated. If you understood what I'm thinking that is. :) I want to do more free-hand sharpening just to get better at it for fun. I think the EP is a great tool and won't stop using it but I'd like to be able to get a great edge without the EP.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

I think you can use the DMT Aligner Clamp as a guide for freehand sharpening Jack.

[video=youtube;iZOM_3Xi8O0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZOM_3Xi8O0[/video]

[xceptnl]

...I understand a very talented free-hand sharpener can hit the bevel at the same angle +/- 1° on each stroke. But, do they know what angle they are setting the bevel to?

Jack, I can feel the bevel against the sone on the blades that I have already reprofiled to a much lower angle because the area in contact with the stone is more.

I think you can use the DMT Aligner Clamp as a guide for freehand sharpening Jack.

I used my aligner and my 701 profile stones to "learn" them.



I am thinking about purchasing one of the inexpensive angle boxes (seen on the wicked edge videos) to help determine what angle my edges are being set at. It should allow my brain to get feedback from my muscle memory.

[.357 mag]

Cut a piece of wood with a miter saw to 15 degrees. Put the piece of wood on the edge of the stone for a guide.

[zidfeldts]

I cut 2 pieces at 15 degrees and screwed them to another piece of wood so they make a v. I just set a stone on each side and it works just like a sharp maker.

[jackknifeh]

I just realized how stupid I am. Not the first time. :) I recently got an Angle Cube. I used it to determine the angle I hold the blade at compared to the stone. Now that I can determine the angle I have the knife positioned for it's a matter of getting the feel of the angle on the stone as I stroke the blade.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

I think you can use the DMT Aligner Clamp as a guide for freehand sharpening Jack.

[video=youtube;iZOM_3Xi8O0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZOM_3Xi8O0[/video]

That's good. I had the old clamp when I had an Aligner system. It didn't have the screw at the pivot. I wonder if the screw makes it possible to get all blades to be held at a 90 degree angle with the stone. Depending on the spine my clamp didn't hold every knife correctly. That would result in different abgles being on opposite sides of the edge.

Jack

[razorsharp]

i use my finger as a spacer/guider , lets me sharpen at a super consistent angle within a couple degrees, when i have the angle i want , I get the feel to where the blade sits on my finger, i may even mark my finger with sharpie but the knife usually leaves a dent in my finger that the knife ends up resting in. ill then visually figure how many mm the edge of the spine is up from the stone and match it on the other side, ans sharpen at that angle (away strokes)

I think I sharpen a bit differently, I have the stone about 30 degrees off vertical cause it feels natural to me, my sharpening strokes coming towards me are finger guided and my push away strokes are visual, I can get nearly a perfect v, it has the SLIGHTEST convex. :D .

I wouldnt know my angles at all, but my rough guesstimates are usually around spot on

[The Deacon]

i use my finger as a spacer/guider , lets me sharpen at a super consistent angle within a couple degrees, when i have the angle i want , I get the feel to where the blade sits on my finger, i may even mark my finger with sharpie but the knife usually leaves a dent in my finger that the knife ends up resting in. ill then visually figure how many mm the edge of the spine is up from the stone and match it on the other side, ans sharpen at that angle (away strokes)

I think I sharpen a bit differently, I have the stone about 30 degrees off vertical cause it feels natural to me, my sharpening strokes coming towards me are finger guided and my push away strokes are visual, I can get nearly a perfect v, it has the SLIGHTEST convex. :D .

I wouldnt know my angles at all, but my rough guesstimates are usually around spot on

That's pretty much the same method I was taught have been using for nearly 60 years.

IMHO, there are a number of things where precision and uniformity are critical to success. Handloading ammo for 1000 yard benchrest matches would be one of them, but sharpening knives isn't. The slight convexing that's inevitable with freehand sharpening automatically compensates for minor variations in angle and a blade that's been sharpened at 13º on one side and 17º on the other will still cut perfectly well. So will one where the included angle varies between the tip and the tang.

Those who demand absolute uniformity should probably stick to using mechanical sharpening aids.

[razorsharp]

That's pretty much the same method I was taught have been using for nearly 60 years.

IMHO, there are a number of things where precision and uniformity are critical to success. Handloading ammo for 1000 yard benchrest matches would be one of them, but sharpening knives isn't. The slight convexing that's inevitable with freehand sharpening automatically compensates for minor variations in angle and a blade that's been sharpened at 13º on one side and 17º on the other will still cut perfectly well. So will one where the included angle varies between the tip and the tang.

Those who demand absolute uniformity should probably stick to using mechanical sharpening aids.

ah cool- I picked up freehand pretty much on my own- I started freehand on a diamond steel, pretty much how I thought it was done- went to a guided sharpener and have recently been freehanding again, MUCH better than I used to be capable of a year ago, I learned a lot about angles from my IRC #sharpthings friends and from studying the angles . I have done the odd freehand job over the past year and a half , picking up a technique very fast- pass a month of perfecting a technique and I have edges like this :D

[phillipsted]

When I'm teaching the Boy Scouts how to freehand, I use the "Quarter method". Its basically the same method that razorsharp and Deacon are talking about - but I've found it helps the newbies (and Scouts with short attention spans!) if you give them a visual reference that helps the keep the angle consistent. I didn't invent this method, and it has been discussed here before - but it works well:

Lay the knife flat on the stone. Angle the spine upward until you feel the bevel resting flat on the stone. This is your basic sharpening angle. Stack up a few quarters on the end of the benchstone - and find the appropriate number of quarters so that you can rest the spine of the blade on the stack comfortably - while keeping the desired sharpening angle. This gives you a reference so that you can re-adjust your fingers on every stroke. Then sharpen as described above.

Pretty soon, the Scouts stop needing to use the quarters and can happily freehand.

TedP

[GCG199]

Generally I find it easy to "feel" the edge at 15-to-20 degrees when freehand sharpening.

It is the thicker, 25-degrees and over, that are hard to sharpen freehand though.

For a knife where the edge is totally dull, I use the DMT guide for just the extra-coarse or coarse stages and freehand it through the finer grits after that.

[jackknifeh]

Generally I find it easy to "feel" the edge at 15-to-20 degrees when freehand sharpening.

It is the thicker, 25-degrees and over, that are hard to sharpen freehand though.

For a knife where the edge is totally dull, I use the DMT guide for just the extra-coarse or coarse stages and freehand it through the finer grits after that.

I don't think I'll ever sharpen anything with an edge angle of 25 deg per side. 20 max and usually lower. After practicing for a few days I can feel when the bevel lays flat on the stone a lot better now. At least I'm feeling more confident to sharpen a knife without the Edge Pro or some other "cheater" system. :) I used bench stones all my life to sharpen my pocket knives but was never concerned about reprofiling an edge or anything like that.

Jack