Spyderco prices are pushing me right out of my hobby.

[JNewell]

Hi Donut,

It sounds like you are suggesting that we make a Para 2 in China?

sal

If I recall Donut's proposals, I think it was to "downgrade" (in cost terms) the materials...use 154CM instead of S30V, maybe use FRN instead of G10. Again IIRC, it was guessed that the savings going to 154CM would be very modest and the initial costs for FRN molds would make savings slim or impossible in the short term. I might be mis-remembering, though.

[Ankerson]

If I recall Donut's proposals, I think it was to "downgrade" (in cost terms) the materials...use 154CM instead of S30V, maybe use FRN instead of G10. Again IIRC, it was guessed that the savings going to 154CM would be very modest and the initial costs for FRN molds would make savings slim or impossible in the short term. I might be mis-remembering, though.

They could go with something like N690 that would still give good edge retention while lowering the cost significantly over S30V, say on a short run maybe.

Not saying they should do it, but it's like 1/3 the cost per pound over S30V, don't know what that would translate into as finial cost per knife over one with S30V though.

[arty]

It is the high quality of the product that keeps me coming back to Spyerco - and - the designs. If I want cheap, I can buy another brand where I have had to send more than 1/2 of the knives to the manufacturer to fix defects. The defects mainly involved lateral and vertical play in traditional folders.
Of the last 10 Spydercos, I had to return 1 because of a problem. Return time was short and the replacement was fine.
The quality of fit and finish has been high, and that keeps me coming back for more. If I want less expensive options, they are available. I am running out of space in the drawer, and I would rather get 1 good Spydercos than 2 cheap knives. Frankly, I don't want the cheaper stuff.
Personally, I would rather have a Chaparral in my pocket than a Paramilitary that never left the drawer....but that is just my view. We all have different wants.

[linuxology]

spyderco please keep quality high. spyderco pricing is at it's price point for a reason. At times I feel the pain when purchasing a spyderco; I can be rest assured that it will be of a high quality with fine materials. Having a fine tool is worth it to me in the end. Spyderco hosts a number of price points for you to get in at.

[markg]

Spyderco fans have come to expect a few things. The latest and greatest steels, exotic handle materials, sprint runs, and a mind boggling array of new or reintroduced knives each year. To make this happen, Spyderco has used internal and external sources of manufacturing, both domestic and foreign. This creates issues where currency exchanges can cause an unfavorable cost increase (as noted). There are a few solutions...

1.) Spyderco sells only what they make in their Golden facility. As noted, most of the affordable knives come from Golden (Paramilitary, Military, Yojimbo 2, Manix 2, et al.) The downside with this is capacity. Most makers who only sell what they make (Benchmade, Emerson, etc.) only introduce a small handful of new knives each year. Also increasing capacity is big money. Do you want that?

2.) Get knives made as cheap as you can by outsourcing them. They could go this route (CRKT, Cold Steel), but who would be happy with this?

Spyderco has chosen to be loyal to many of the makers (Japan) who were there from the beginning. Do you think you would see Ayoob, or Rookie spring runs if they did not?

Knives are just more expensive today. Consider most of the knife world is all wrapped up with the Ti framelock/G-10 handled knife... And those are starting at $250 no matter who makes them. Gone are the days you could get great deals on eBay from guys selling out of their basements.

My suggestion, know what you want... Buy less but better quality.

[Zenith]

Thanks Zenith. Seeing a perspective from someone outside of the United States is nice. I will think about it more now. The best thing, in my opinion, about threads like these is that I think we all learn a lot. I know I do, and I hope others do as well.

To learn is a wonderful thing.

I just had a look. One can get a Spyderco Military from a well known on line retailer at $135 dollars with a super saving on shipping inside the USA. Now in RSA we dont have this luxury at times and many companies do not ship internationally. Even if I pay $135 with international shipping $40, that gives us a total of $175. Then all those extras come, lets say the official charges you only on the product (sometimes the label is read wrong and the goods total is seen as $175, but that is another story) ad $27 (%20) to the price ($162 total) plus $23 ( approximate %14 VAT on total price) and you have $185 excluding postage. Depending on customs of course and who ever handles your package this price can vary. I have received some where the packages have been opened by customs officials to check validity.

Price from a respected store: $298, then you can at least examine your knife before purchase of course and the retailer deals with any warranty issues.

I have gone the route of the internet. Still expensive compared to what you guys pay, there is a chance the knife can be kept by customs, you can pay more then expected, the knife can get lost. But the extra cash I save I respend on local knife makers :)

I have to admit, I only need two more production knives and I am....well...done with US and imported knives. Sorry to say, but I cant afford to spend more and have other obligations. I will focus on my own designs and local makers and just keep using what I have and get some good use out of them. I will only replace what I currently have if need be.

[Fred Sanford]

I don't want Spyderco to skimp on quality and I don't think they ever will. I guess I'm just not used to seeing Spydies with higher prices. I can get used to it.

Remember, back in the day, they used to have Seki models and Golden models. The Golden models were about $135 at most. Some of you who have only been around for 2-3 years I don't think realize this. Remember when you could get an S30V Lil' Temp for about $117? I do.

[Ankerson]

I don't want Spyderco to skimp on quality and I don't think they ever will. I guess I'm just not used to seeing Spydies with higher prices. I can get used to it.

Remember, back in the day, they used to have Seki models and Golden models. The Golden models were about $135 at most. Some of you who have only been around for 2-3 years I don't think realize this. Remember when you could get an S30V Lil' Temp for about $117? I do.

I remember when Gas was way under $1.00 a gallon and Smokes were like $.75 a pack in the machines, one could buy a nice house for $35K and a nice new car for $3K.

And when $10 an hour was a good wage..... Now it's like a tip.....

Doesn't mean much today though with all the progress.

[jnichols2]

I thought Spyderco already made knives with lesser steels and much lower prices. Look in the Byrd Knife section of the catalog.

Spyderco costs more, and makes them better. If you want cheaper, buy cheaper knives.

I know that some of you have 15 - 20 or more knives in your collection. That's expensive. Ask Jay Leno how expensive antique cars are.

[Joshua J.]

But how can Spyderco make things fairer for B&M dealers without making prices that consumers pay even higher than they are now, unless you assume they're making excessive profit on each knife, and can afford to simultaneously cut wholesale prices, cut MSRPs, and insist all dealers sell at full MSRP?

Not sure to be honest. But they most certainly don't need to insist all dealers to sell full MSRP. Online dealers can sell less because they don't have a high rent to pay. (big assumption, please correct me if I'm wrong) Most can even deal out if a garage if they wanted to. Rent in a mall can be upwards in the $5000 per month. Even more if you want a good spot. It is quite unfortunate.. Walk-in stores are going the way of the C80GBK. It's becoming harder and harder to manage one.

The internet has introduced a sales model that is far superior for the consumer than the traditional retail system. As a result you now see the retail industry shrinking like a grape in a dehydrator, and I have a feeling it's got a ways to go before it finally becomes a raisin.
That doesn't mean that the "little guy" is doomed, far from it. I've seen small hobby shops thrive because of good online strategy, the new market is actually more of an equalizing force than a destructive one. Now Bob and Joe can compete with multi-billion dollar corporations.
It's kind of ironic how in the 90's you had the wave of "big business crushing the little guy" and now major retail chains are dropping like flies.

[Phrenik]

Hi Pockets, Tvenuto,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Interesting thread, thanx for the start David. Naturally we're open to suggestions.

It's easy to see why many of the knife companies are making more and more knives in China, or at least making parts in China and assembling in the US. In an earlier post, the Chinese Yuan was listed as .75 to the dollar, not so, more like .20 to the dollar. It's easy to make a knife in China, sell it at a lower price and still make more profit than mfg anywhere else.

The Japanese Yen is more like 1.30 to the dollar. Add shipping, duties, licenses, etc. and that figure goes up. Our Seki makers are cutting their margins as low as they can and still survive (few companes are still making knives in Seki - when the Yen was 350 to the dollar, all the makes were in Seki). We've also cut our margins on Seki make knives as slow as posible in order to keep the knives available and keep the makers working. A practice the accountng dept does not appreciate.

The Euro is also up there with the Yen. We have been able to make a few knives in Italy because the makers there are also cooperating with very low margins betting on the future.

If a model does not survive, either because of demand or price, it is usually is dropped. Every week we have our product meeting where prices are heavily discussed. We also cringe at the prices we have to charge. As I said, I'm open to suggestions?

sal

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"Spiral Up" - Higher wages = more buying power = better economy = more productive society = happier population.

Ah sorry about that Sal, I was under the impression the currency was also called yuan in Taiwan [as well as new Taiwan dollar], and typed it as such. Didn't mean to put misleading info, since I was referring to Taiwan and not China in my post. Although it may not be correct for Taiwan as well then x.x lol

[cosmo7809]

As much as I love Spyderco I still shake my head when I see knives like the Szabo, Puukko, and Nilakka.

I feel why make knives like that with such a high MSRP when you can make something that will sell better due to cost and popularity. Sure they have that cool, unique look but come on.... *Shrugs*

Also, in the past when a new knife came out I bought it... Now it seems like there is the initial sticker shock and then I need to gather my $$ together by selling unwanted items just to make it justifiable to purchase a new blade.

With all that said, Spyderco is and will continue to be my number one brand.

[nullity]

I don't think I know enough to criticize any of their business practices.

I'm happy with the knives they offer that are within my budget.

Should I be expecting more?

[Elsilrac1]

This theme seems to be across the board - just not with Spydies - but with other knife makers and other hobbies I have like guns and ammo. It has forced me to recycle my inventory along with my small allowance to get one or two 200 dollar knives in a given year where before I could pick up twice that many without even looking to sell before I buy. I feel your pain and know you are not alone.

[cosmo7809]

I don't think I know enough to criticize any of their business practices.

IMO, its not so much that then it is all of us just feeling a little united with the same thoughts.

I am sure all the people who posted in this thread have some point thought to themselves "Wow, prices are getting higher". But the thought ended there. Now we are seeing that we arent the only ones thinking that.

Whether for good or bad I think this thread has given some members the "Yah, I knew I wasnt crazy" thought.

[The Deacon]

The internet has introduced a sales model that is far superior for the consumer than the traditional retail system. As a result you now see the retail industry shrinking like a grape in a dehydrator, and I have a feeling it's got a ways to go before it finally becomes a raisin.
That doesn't mean that the "little guy" is doomed, far from it. I've seen small hobby shops thrive because of good online strategy, the new market is actually more of an equalizing force than a destructive one. Now Bob and Joe can compete with multi-billion dollar corporations.
It's kind of ironic how in the 90's you had the wave of "big business crushing the little guy" and now major retail chains are dropping like flies.

May work for a few, but I doubt it will work for the majority. Different skill set, different way of thinking. Not everyone can adapt and, if they still maintain a B&M presence, the same high overhead costs.

I do find it ironic and mildly amusing that Walmart, who probably drove more local merchants out of business than any other discounter, is now crying foul about Amazon's advantages in the marketplace.

[Blerv]

The flip side to nostalgic bliss is that if you put most knives of today in a time machine it would blow the minds of the past away. Some like the Manix2 are pretty amazing considering inflation of expenses.

I do miss 90's gas prices but smart phones more than make up for it.

[dbcad]

Wealth inequality.........................................

[tr4022]

.... the Techno, Ulize, Szabo, and Tuff all will have an MSRP of $125, which should translate into a street value of, say, $80. Well, I, for one, think this has been a VERY productive discussion!

Tod

[xceptnl]

I love seeing simultaneous threads on the forum about Uber exotic Vanadis 23 and the opposite end of the spectrum is a thread discussing the rising expense of spyderco knives. I see a line forming in he crowd.