Crazy...

[FLYBYU44]

I was in my local knife store this morning checking out some of the new Spyderco models. Just browsing as everything is MSRP or better. There is a chick in front of me looking at knives and she asked the salesman what his cheapest "flick knife" was. He asked her what she ment and she pointed at a random Benchmade folder and said she wanted something like that so you can flick the blade out. The guy asked her what she thought was cheap and she says $150. Then he asked what she wanted to use it for. She replied that she wanted if for protection cause she lives on the West side (as do I). The guy kept a straight face and showed her some Benchmade knives. Not sure that she bought anything at all, I had to leave after that. Kind of scary that someone like that is buying a knife with the intent to protect herself, but is obviously very inexperienced with knives. If she did have to use it, chances are her attacker would take it from her.

[Evil D]

I was always told that if you bring a weapon to a fight you better be ready to have it used against you. If i were you in that store i would've interrupted and set the girl on the right path, especially if the shop was a joke and i knew i wouldn't be coming back.

[Blerv]

I think anyone who is looking for a "cheap flick knife" for defense should slow down and reconsider things. Namely that you are looking for a lethal device intending to use it as a weapon and not a tool. Plus, you're price shopping. :confused:

In the situation where anyone with intent is able to deploy a pocket knife I believe their deadliness goes up 10 fold. The edge doesn't require muscle mass but rewards reflexes and desire to harm. Compared to some things like a gun (requiring aim) or a blunt object (requiring some strength) it's a solid tool to equal the playing field.

The more I live the more I realize that there are bigger issues besides ballistics. Getting the tool out in time of duress (like after you have been hit), using it properly, dealing with the consequences are just some of them. If you flick a knife at someone congrats...that's brandishing. If you stab someone, well, hopefully their body responds as intended instantly stopping because it rarely does. Assuming you have the bravado to do it without anxiety in a lackluster fashion.

The Matriarch was designed for the women in Africa fending off rapists. Arguably a tougher breed than Suzie the business major at the state school. I'm sure there are some horrifically scarred assailants because of them ( ).


PS: The common arguments of 1.) having the guts to use it. and 2.) if they take it from you, are valid. However, if the person holding a knife thinks they are going to die it's not as easy as it sounds. The average mugger is pretty much a pissed off buffoon...not a Silat master.

[chuck_roxas45]

If it's as easy to take a knife away from you, then it would be as easy to take away from the taker.

You'll just be taking the knife away from each other all night if it was that easy. :D

[Blerv]

If it's as easy to take a knife away from you, then it would be as easy to take away from the taker.

You'll just be taking the knife away from each other all night if it was that easy. :D

Ah hah!

Doh!

Ah hah!!

Doh!

* six hours later *

[MachSchnell]

Ah hah!

Doh!

Ah hah!!

Doh!

* six hours later *

Hehe :p !


Stun gun or pepper spray for SD, better yet how bout some cardio and a nice pair of sneakers.

[Blerv]

Hehe :p !


Stun gun or pepper spray for SD, better yet how bout some cardio and a nice pair of sneakers.

# 1 Rule of Zombieland: Cardio. :D

[BAL]

Take you back
Do do do do
Take you back
Take you back
Do do do do
Take you back



All night long! (all night)
All night long! (all night)
All night long! (all night)

[fifthprofession47]

While I agree that she should probably learn more about knives in general in order to make a more informed decision I would politely disagree that an attacker would just take it away from her. Not too many people are going to wade in and try and take a knife out of the hand of a scared, adrenalized women who is swinging at anything in her way.

The late Bob Kasper wrote an article for Tactical Knives magazine (January 1998 issue) where he addressed women and the use of knives for self-defense. In that article he stated, "I've personally witnessed several knife fights. One ended in a slash and two stabs to the hand; another ended in one slash to the wrist. The men were cut and refused to continue because they feared further injury---self preservation. These endings were physically induced psychological stops. Still a third fight resulted in a stab to the chest.This attack was definately a physical stop. After a few seconds, the wounded man had difficulty breathing and ceased fighting. The fourth example was defensive--- a woman threatening to stab a physically violent man with a pair of scissors if he came near her. This stop was purely psychological because of his fear. He felt she would do it because of the intent in her persona."


Bob's friend and training partner, Kelly McCann stated this when asked what he felt about women using knives for self-defense, "Nothing will get someone off you more quickly than a knife or the threat of being cut. It scares people almost more than anything else. For women, where an attacker will charge in with just a stick or unarmed , I think it would be quite unlikely they would do so when she is slashing at anything that enters her circle of defense."

[The Mastiff]

All it really takes is a desire to do it, and no hesitation.

I always hear people talking about getting a knife taken from you if you're not trained. Perhaps if your opponent is Michael Janich, and he is prepared and willing to try.

How many people have seen knives taken away from people who were really bent on using them? The only times I've seen it , it took a greater amount of force than the person with the knife presented.

Cutting someone up sure isn't rocket science. All it really takes is a desire to do it, and a blade to do it with. The "it will get taken away from a woman trying to protect herself" comes from the same time and thinking process that stated "don't let your daughter drive at night alone". It's not very realistic. I sure hope some of you guys aren't raising your daughters with the idea that they can't defend themselves unless they have been to knife fighting school. How many of your daughters will be wanting , or having the time and experience to be doing that?

What you should be telling someone is they shouldn't expect someone to look at the knife wistfully, and fall down and die when stabbed. More, expect them to run the 40 yard dash in olympic qualifying time. Likewise mace, pepper spray, stun guns, and even pistols .

Most people will however attempt to get away from whatever is destroying their body. It's not really different from animals in that respect.

Joe

[enduraguy]

The late Bob Kasper wrote an article for Tactical Knives magazine (January 1998 issue) where he addressed women and the use of knives for self-defense. In that article he stated, "I've personally witnessed several knife fights. One ended in a slash and two stabs to the hand; another ended in one slash to the wrist. The men were cut and refused to continue because they feared further injury---self preservation. These endings were physically induced psychological stops. Still a third fight resulted in a stab to the chest.This attack was definately a physical stop. After a few seconds, the wounded man had difficulty breathing and ceased fighting. The fourth example was defensive--- a woman threatening to stab a physically violent man with a pair of scissors if he came near her. This stop was purely psychological because of his fear. He felt she would do it because of the intent in her persona."

Yep. I've had many debates with friends in the past over topics like this related to "self defense". Arm chair commando/hollywood logic vs. real world reactions to injury, or the threat thereof are always in sharp contradiction. I have met very few people who like the sight of their own blood. I'm man enough to admit, I still react to a cut the way I did when I was a child. I immediately stop what I'm doing and put all of my focus on the cut appendage. I won't take the thread in another direction, but similar hilarity always takes place in threads about hand gun choices and caliber "X" vs "Y". Injury is injury and most people will stop whatever they are doing in order to avoid it, or more of it. :)

[Donut]

I think the store employee handled the situation well. He did what he could to suggest a reputable knife to her even though she may have been looking for an unreliable product.

[SolidState]

All it really takes is a desire to do it, and no hesitation.
The "it will get taken away from a woman trying to protect herself" comes from the same time and thinking process that stated "don't let your daughter drive at night alone". It's not very realistic. I sure hope some of you guys aren't raising your daughters with the idea that they can't defend themselves unless they have been to knife fighting school. How many of your daughters will be wanting , or having the time and experience to be doing that?
Joe

Joe makes some great points. The thing that you have to prepare for is the rush of adrenaline. This is the single biggest down side of self-help courses for women masquerading as self-defense classes. If the attacker is wearing a ping-pong ball head and standing quietly as she yells and hits, it's not doing her any favors. It's not teaching how to defend, but how to attack.

All of the women in my life have been through legitimate self defense, and I've dumped girlfriends for refusing to get any training. Statistics don't lie, and statistics suck for women in general, especially attractive and demure ones. There is an old samurai maxim along the lines of "only a warrior can choose passive resolution," and I firmly believe that. After teaching self defense for women and children for a few years in my younger days, I have noticed that most people go fight or flight, and about 50-60% naturally take flight mentally, and freeze up, when under aggressive attack. After dealing with a few weeks of training, the mindset changes completely, and they no longer freeze up.

Unless someone has dealt with the adrenaline surge, and learned to work past it, it is kind of pointless for them to be armed other than for the boosted confidence factor. I believe that confidence is a deterrent to predatory behavior, but not as much as competent reaction and aggressive distancing which both come from training.

[angusW]

Joe hit the nail dead on. Daughters, and sons, have to be taught that they have the right to defend themselves and how to do it. I've already started with my 4 year old daughter. I tell her not to start fights but if someone attacks her then don't hold back. At that age the govenor isn't turned on as much but as people get older it will hold them back. One of the tricks to survive an attack is to turn the govenor off.

That store owner should be more careful as I'm assuming that store is in Saskatchewan and as Canadians you cannot prepare to defend yourself.

[FLYBYU44]

Yes the store is here in Saskatoon. As far as having the knife taken, that isn't based on hollywood, it's based on my father-in-law. He pulled a knife in self defence, it was taken from him and he now has several scars from stab wounds on his legs. He is a big guy too, much bigger then the small woman in the knife store, so anything can happen.

[chuck_roxas45]

Yes the store is here in Saskatoon. As far as having the knife taken, that isn't based on hollywood, it's based on my father-in-law. He pulled a knife in self defence, it was taken from him and he now has several scars from stab wounds on his legs. He is a big guy too, much bigger then the small woman in the knife store, so anything can happen.

Ok, I'll play. What happened?

[Blerv]

There is a case for everything. The guy who never pulled a knife and had it taken could had very well been curb stomped. Maybe the mugging kept him from a fatal car crash. I've seen Back to the Future :) .

Fact is if you're aiming for the throat and pissed/scared holding a knife the danger level just got cranked! If the same guy was getting by with fisticuffs he would have been worse off from a threat perspective to the assailant. All the more reason to have intent if you carry a deadly weapon for defense; if not go buy a whistle.

[chuck_roxas45]

There is a case for everything. The guy who never pulled a knife and had it taken could had very well been curb stomped. Maybe the mugging kept him from a fatal car crash. I've seen Back to the Future :) .

Fact is if you're aiming for the throat and pissed/scared holding a knife the danger level just got cranked! If the same guy was getting by with fisticuffs he would have been worse off from a threat perspective to the assailant. All the more reason to have intent if you carry a deadly weapon for defense; if not go buy a whistle.

Yeh, intent is the thing. If we're just gonna try to scare somebody, then I'd say just make faces at them. This one might work.

[cubsfan1969]

Reading a book on this kind of stuff right now called "Facing Violence" by a guy named Rory Miller. Pretty decent read.