Try your edge after the medium stones. If it will shave arm hair then but not after the fine stones you will have isolated your problem. You are doing something different with the fine stones. I've had that problem in the past. Not on a Sharpmaker but on bench stones. By the time I got to the fine stones I was ready to finish and my patience was gone. Being in a hurry I wasn't using care in my angles.
You had better stop and take a break right now. If you don't you may try to improve by repeating your mistakes and wasting a bunch of steel on your knives. I've done that too.
I don't have a Sharpmaker so specific techniques about it I don't know. I just thought of a couple of things that apply to most sharpening methods. I didn't read the entire thread so your problem may have been solved by now. I hope so. If not, keep working on it, you'll get there. It's amazing how difficult a simple job like sharpening a knife can become when you are shooting for really sharp edges. :) It's fun though and very satisfying when you jump a step in skill. Later you jump another step, then another.
Jack
Another Sharpmaker question
I'm not planning on giving up on the SM. Too many people have had success with it for me to think that only because it hasn't worked yet, it never will. It's obviously user error that can be corrected. As one post mentioned, I knew nothing about knives until I found this site. So I don't expect to be an expert at this yet. Just looking for pointers right now since I'm obviously doing something wrong.
My knives aren't dull by any means, you can feel the edge on them. Again, it just the fact that after a couple of cuts of paper, they start to grab at it. So would getting the UF rods and a strop help with that? As INFRNL mentioned, which loupe should I get and where to get it? Might as well pick one up to make sure I have all the tools necessary.
My knives aren't dull by any means, you can feel the edge on them. Again, it just the fact that after a couple of cuts of paper, they start to grab at it. So would getting the UF rods and a strop help with that? As INFRNL mentioned, which loupe should I get and where to get it? Might as well pick one up to make sure I have all the tools necessary.
This is what I keep aiming for but can't achieve. Every time I try the arm shaving test, I get no hair. All I get is a bunch of skin (which my wife finds disgusting). The day I finally shave my arm hair with a knife I've sharpened, is the day I poor Rogaine on my arms so I can keep sharpening!jackknifeh wrote:Try your edge after the medium stones. If it will shave arm hair then but not after the fine stones you will have isolated your problem.
Jack
Loupe thread in off topic sectiOn:
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... ight=Loupe
Some good info on loupe's :D
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... ight=Loupe
Some good info on loupe's :D
-Ryan
-Techno, cruwear Mule, Dragonfly 2 FRN, Assist, Endura FRN ATS-55 SE, Endura SS aus-6 PE, Persistence(Wife's)
-Wicked Edge
-Techno, cruwear Mule, Dragonfly 2 FRN, Assist, Endura FRN ATS-55 SE, Endura SS aus-6 PE, Persistence(Wife's)
-Wicked Edge
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chuck_roxas45
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Two things are usually the culprits, assuming of course, that you are hitting the edge. The first is pressure(too heavy or too light) and angle consistency.
http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ot-gif.gif" target="_blank
Niles, I'm going to give it another try, keeping in mind the suggestions I've gotten so far. My game plan is to completely clean the rods, do my Sharpie marking, and watch the video while sharpening at a table to see if that helps. If I don't notice a significant improvement, then I'll post a quick video to get feedback on what I'm doing wrong. Again, I know it's user error and will continue to practice until I get it down. I'm also going to be ordering a strop, loupe, and the UF rods shortly.Niles wrote:Can you post a video of how you're sharpening? Maybe it's something noticeable that someone here can pick out and help you move through.
Will the MEDIUM grit spyderco stone remove enough material to sharpen a really dull knife? What grit number is it considered? While I am asking, what grit is the fine considered?
Trying to decide if I need some kind of coarse stone and what grit to get compared to the Spyderco grit numbers of the medium and fine. I dont want to get one that is too close to the medium grit as it would waste time and money.
I have the sharpmaker 204mf, the profile 701mf set and the double stuff 303mf as well as a Lansky croc stick for serrated Spyderco's (which I have no idea what grit it is either!)
Trying to decide if I need some kind of coarse stone and what grit to get compared to the Spyderco grit numbers of the medium and fine. I dont want to get one that is too close to the medium grit as it would waste time and money.
I have the sharpmaker 204mf, the profile 701mf set and the double stuff 303mf as well as a Lansky croc stick for serrated Spyderco's (which I have no idea what grit it is either!)
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jackknifeh
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- Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:01 am
- Location: Florida panhandle
All your Spyderco stones are the same grits. Your only option for the sharpmaker in addition to what you have is the diamond coarse stones or UF stones. I don't have a sharpmaker but have used the Spyderco stones. If you want coarser and not the Spyderco diamond stones, I'd go with a DMT coarse stone. There are various sizes, styles (solid or with holes) and prices of course. The coarse stone will remove steel fast enough to reprofile a blade fairly quickly. When reprofiling keep in mind you will never be talking about a "just a few minute" job. We aren't talking several hours either. I love the Spyderco 2"x8" fine and UF stones for touch ups. I don't have the med bench stone because I won't free hand sharpen if that much work is needed. Anyway, a DMT coarse is your next step in the coarser direction IMO. Of course you can get an extra-coarse stone if you definately want to remove steel and be sure you have a tool for it. But for just sharpening a pretty dull knife the coarse DMT will easily do it. Anything finer than the Spyderco fine stone is only necessary for getting an Ultra Fine edge (hence the name :) ). The fine is plenty fine enough for a hair shaving edge though. I believe most people need to use coarser stones before they truely need anything finer than the Spyderco fine stone. You will need to sharpen a real dull knife or reprofile a knife before you really need to get a knife sharper than the Spyderco fine stone will do. My opinion based on my needs.sir_mike wrote:Will the MEDIUM grit spyderco stone remove enough material to sharpen a really dull knife? What grit number is it considered? While I am asking, what grit is the fine considered?
Trying to decide if I need some kind of coarse stone and what grit to get compared to the Spyderco grit numbers of the medium and fine. I dont want to get one that is too close to the medium grit as it would waste time and money.
I have the sharpmaker 204mf, the profile 701mf set and the double stuff 303mf as well as a Lansky croc stick for serrated Spyderco's (which I have no idea what grit it is either!)
Jack
I think he meant from item to item! :)Donut wrote:What?
I think when I read, the Medium was 600, Fine was 1200, and Ultra Fine was 2000. I could be wrong plus or minus some.
Shouldnt the medium at 600 grit be enough to do some reprofiling or sharpening a dull knife back to where it is sharp? After using the fine stone of course! :)
If not, then why doesnt Spyderco make a coarse stone around 300-400 grit then? Not counting the Diamond ones.
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Cliff Stamp
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- Contact:
You are not removing the burr.paisa777 wrote: Is there something I'm missing?
a) make a very light cut into the medium stone at a 90. this should flatten the edge and it should reflect light the entire length.
b) hone on the medium stones until you can no longer see the light. do not press overly hard, you just need the stones to cut into the knife, you don't want it to mechanically deform
c) tilt the knife so that the angle to the stone in increased by 10-20 degrees. make 3 very light passes per side, I mean very light, as in 10-20 grams
d) use 5 very light passes per side at the original angle to reform the edge
It should easily shave now of off the medium stones and the slice newsprint easily.
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jackknifeh
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- Location: Florida panhandle
I meant the grits of your different sets were the same, med and fine. Not that the brown and white were the same. I see how it looked that way. :) From what I read about the ceramic stones they don't even use numbers to identify grit. But I think your comparisons are as close as possible from what I know.Donut wrote:What?
I think when I read, the Medium was 600, Fine was 1200, and Ultra Fine was 2000. I could be wrong plus or minus some.
Jack
Some time ago my sharpening skills were just horrible but something I learnt was starting with "easy steels" as 8cr13 before getting into VG-10 or S30V, even if I don't think these are hard to work with (S30V is just great). Lately I find myself using one ceramic file as a benchstone and the results are quite good with my technique. Medium grit, fine, ultrafine (very light touches) and back to medium for a nice toothy microbevel. I also check the burr with the palm of my hand (it seems to give me great feedback) and if I get stuck I even try a ceramic V sharpener (very gently) to put a straight edge before using the ultrafine. If you still have problems and don't want to spend too much money you can try DMT Magna-Guide or something like that. You'll have to be careful not to scratch anything, but I got easily some hair-popping edges with that tool.
Hi Paisa777,
I perfectly understand your concerns here as I had similar problems as you did on the sharpmaker before.
Here are my suggestions. I will answer the burr first as it is the easiest to answer.
Burr: jdavis882 did make a video on how to catch the burr (sharpending 202 the burr). He uses the cotton bud technique. In his video, he exaggerated the burr so you will get to know what it looks like. Personally I just use my fingers to check for the burr. Will explain this further later on your sharpmaker question.
Sharpmaker: From my experience, the sharpmaker will only do you good if the factory bevel is 40 or 30. If not mistaken, some spyderco knives is not exactly 40 degrees as there are some proprietary bevel, factory hand sharpening inconsistencies, or whatever reason that may cause the degrees not to match. Shall this be the case, it will take you ages to get things sharp. I recall sharpening my leatherman 420HC for 6+ hours (split to 3 days) without results, assuming 420HC is a softer steel compared to what you are using. But once you get "or set" the bevel correctly. It will take you less than an hour to sharpen using the sharpmaker. Of course not pro grade but almost hair whittling sharp and already satisfactory for newbie standards.
Solution.
a. you can try the diamond stones for rebeveling the edge to 40. (I did not go for this method)
Most knife experts recommend getting ultra fine stones instead of coarser stones. From my experience, this seem to be a valid point. My opinion is, what we are buying from spyderco are the maginificent stones to get your already sharp knives beyond sharp. As for coarser stones, there are a lot of other suppliers out there.
b. you can use whetstones 'dry' no water/oil the spyderco way. (this is the method I did)
Whetstones are coarser than diamond stones (and cheaper) so I went to this route.
Did I do it freehand? Nope. I did it the sharpmaker way. I made a jig to hold the whetstone to a 20/40 degree angle like the sharpmaker. Then rebeveled the knife on the coarse side as how you do the strokes on a sharpmaker. From my research, there are evidence of using whetstones dry with good results. I am no knife expert, but as with my experience I am very satisfied with the results. I sharpen my knife on the custom jig with both sides of the whetstone (coarse and fine) until it gets to 'slice' cut paper (did not try pushcut). Afterwhich I then move to the sharpmaker for micro bevel all the way until the fine stone.
Tip: I suggest you practice with an el cheapo kitchen knife first. That is how I learned. I just kept on sharpening one side of the kitchen knife on my custom jig. If you keep on sharpening on one side, you will see a big burr. The burr will become big enough to see and you don't even have to feel it anymore. Once this happens, you will have a first hand experience with burr and will then gain the ability to feel the smaller burrs by hand. I find this to be a fun experience and a very good learning experience, also a good foundation to start with with knife sharpening.
c. What if I can't do a custom Jig?
Some people wrap coarse sandpaper over sharpmaker stones and rebevel the knife that way. I have tried this and I don't recommend it. You will have to change sandpaper so frequently that it is not worth the hassle. This was what caused/motivated me to do a custom jig.
As the sandpaper is not a good solution, what I did was to buy a smaller whetstone. Set up the sharpmaker and place it on top of a shaprmaker stone. Held it in place on top of by hand and sharpened as how you do with a sharpmaker. But be careful with this as you may cut yourself (do this at your own risk). If you are right handed you will not have problems sharpening the left side of the blade. The difficult part is sharpening the right side of the blade. What I did was to switch the knife to my left hand and sharpen away.
The only reason why I did this method was to prove my whetstone theory and custom jig solution. when it had good results, I proceeded making the custom jig as it not only made sharpening faster, it is also safer than this method.
d. Jdavis882 way
I believe that you might have skipped some videos of Jdavis on the sharpmaker. he has about 4-5 vids of it if my memory serves me right. Assuming that your knives are sharp and you don't want to spend the trouble rebeveling. Jdavis sharpens the knife with the sharpmaker adjusting to the correct angle by hand. Meaning. Spyderco default instructions is to hold the blade perpendicular to the table surface. Jdavis tilts the blade a little bit to align the edge in parallel to the sharpmaker stones (tilting to which direction depends on your knife existing bevel angle). This will speed up your sharpening on the sharpmaker dramatically. This is the method that I do to sharpen my serrated edge as the bevel of my knife is not the same with sharpmaker.
I agree with Jdavis' advise. Sharpening is not following a set of rules, but it is about consistency. From my experience, if you do it nice and slow and consistent you get a faster result than speeding away on the sharpmaker. I have seen a lot of youtube vids stroking the knife so fast on the sharpmaker. Doing this method will not be effective as I have been there. Doing slower strokes will also give a sharper tip (going too fast will round the tip). I'm not saying that going slow will not round the tip, but you will have more control hence minimizing it.
Sharpie: I use the sharpie method to check my edge is parallel to the sharpmaker stone. Then slowly adjust my hand angle (may not end up perpendicular to table surface). From there I try to lock my wrist angle for consistency. After that I mostly use light reflection from the edge to check my progress.
Well, I hope this will help you with your sharpmaker. Happy sharpening.
I perfectly understand your concerns here as I had similar problems as you did on the sharpmaker before.
Here are my suggestions. I will answer the burr first as it is the easiest to answer.
Burr: jdavis882 did make a video on how to catch the burr (sharpending 202 the burr). He uses the cotton bud technique. In his video, he exaggerated the burr so you will get to know what it looks like. Personally I just use my fingers to check for the burr. Will explain this further later on your sharpmaker question.
Sharpmaker: From my experience, the sharpmaker will only do you good if the factory bevel is 40 or 30. If not mistaken, some spyderco knives is not exactly 40 degrees as there are some proprietary bevel, factory hand sharpening inconsistencies, or whatever reason that may cause the degrees not to match. Shall this be the case, it will take you ages to get things sharp. I recall sharpening my leatherman 420HC for 6+ hours (split to 3 days) without results, assuming 420HC is a softer steel compared to what you are using. But once you get "or set" the bevel correctly. It will take you less than an hour to sharpen using the sharpmaker. Of course not pro grade but almost hair whittling sharp and already satisfactory for newbie standards.
Solution.
a. you can try the diamond stones for rebeveling the edge to 40. (I did not go for this method)
Most knife experts recommend getting ultra fine stones instead of coarser stones. From my experience, this seem to be a valid point. My opinion is, what we are buying from spyderco are the maginificent stones to get your already sharp knives beyond sharp. As for coarser stones, there are a lot of other suppliers out there.
b. you can use whetstones 'dry' no water/oil the spyderco way. (this is the method I did)
Whetstones are coarser than diamond stones (and cheaper) so I went to this route.
Did I do it freehand? Nope. I did it the sharpmaker way. I made a jig to hold the whetstone to a 20/40 degree angle like the sharpmaker. Then rebeveled the knife on the coarse side as how you do the strokes on a sharpmaker. From my research, there are evidence of using whetstones dry with good results. I am no knife expert, but as with my experience I am very satisfied with the results. I sharpen my knife on the custom jig with both sides of the whetstone (coarse and fine) until it gets to 'slice' cut paper (did not try pushcut). Afterwhich I then move to the sharpmaker for micro bevel all the way until the fine stone.
Tip: I suggest you practice with an el cheapo kitchen knife first. That is how I learned. I just kept on sharpening one side of the kitchen knife on my custom jig. If you keep on sharpening on one side, you will see a big burr. The burr will become big enough to see and you don't even have to feel it anymore. Once this happens, you will have a first hand experience with burr and will then gain the ability to feel the smaller burrs by hand. I find this to be a fun experience and a very good learning experience, also a good foundation to start with with knife sharpening.
c. What if I can't do a custom Jig?
Some people wrap coarse sandpaper over sharpmaker stones and rebevel the knife that way. I have tried this and I don't recommend it. You will have to change sandpaper so frequently that it is not worth the hassle. This was what caused/motivated me to do a custom jig.
As the sandpaper is not a good solution, what I did was to buy a smaller whetstone. Set up the sharpmaker and place it on top of a shaprmaker stone. Held it in place on top of by hand and sharpened as how you do with a sharpmaker. But be careful with this as you may cut yourself (do this at your own risk). If you are right handed you will not have problems sharpening the left side of the blade. The difficult part is sharpening the right side of the blade. What I did was to switch the knife to my left hand and sharpen away.
The only reason why I did this method was to prove my whetstone theory and custom jig solution. when it had good results, I proceeded making the custom jig as it not only made sharpening faster, it is also safer than this method.
d. Jdavis882 way
I believe that you might have skipped some videos of Jdavis on the sharpmaker. he has about 4-5 vids of it if my memory serves me right. Assuming that your knives are sharp and you don't want to spend the trouble rebeveling. Jdavis sharpens the knife with the sharpmaker adjusting to the correct angle by hand. Meaning. Spyderco default instructions is to hold the blade perpendicular to the table surface. Jdavis tilts the blade a little bit to align the edge in parallel to the sharpmaker stones (tilting to which direction depends on your knife existing bevel angle). This will speed up your sharpening on the sharpmaker dramatically. This is the method that I do to sharpen my serrated edge as the bevel of my knife is not the same with sharpmaker.
I agree with Jdavis' advise. Sharpening is not following a set of rules, but it is about consistency. From my experience, if you do it nice and slow and consistent you get a faster result than speeding away on the sharpmaker. I have seen a lot of youtube vids stroking the knife so fast on the sharpmaker. Doing this method will not be effective as I have been there. Doing slower strokes will also give a sharper tip (going too fast will round the tip). I'm not saying that going slow will not round the tip, but you will have more control hence minimizing it.
Sharpie: I use the sharpie method to check my edge is parallel to the sharpmaker stone. Then slowly adjust my hand angle (may not end up perpendicular to table surface). From there I try to lock my wrist angle for consistency. After that I mostly use light reflection from the edge to check my progress.
Well, I hope this will help you with your sharpmaker. Happy sharpening.