for people who have experience with both:
how does each cut?
how hard is each to sharpen?
how tough is it (resistance to chipping/wear)?
how does each retain its edge?
M2 is often said to be great b/c of its ability to hold up a thin edge well. what about S30V in this aspect?
what PERFORMS better overall (corrosion not being a factor)?
alright how does S30V compare to M2?
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aero_student
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- Location: Folsom, CA, USA, Earth USA
I don't know about s30v. I have had some gread experiences with cpm44v. It takes a great edge and has a toothy feel to it. M2 is a odd beast of a steel. I have made a few knives out of it and it is a serious pain to work with. To give you an idea of how tough it was I was able to hack through a 2" x 2" of redwood scrap I had lying around and it was still close to shaving sharp afterwards. Putting an edge on took some serious time, I would hate to have to resurrect an edge that was neglected in this steel.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>'ll throw in a few bits of info as well.
First of all, all of the steels being discussed are all excellent steels and few would be disappointed in any of them for use.
For the most part, I must agree with Joe on his classifications.
This is really a 4 dimensional question and all dimensions would have to be considered for an accurate assesment.
#1 - Corrosion resistance is a big deal for many. 440C with it's "huge" amount of chrome (exceeded only by Timkin Latrobe's CV-20) is clearly superior in "Q-fog" testing, followed by VG-10. D-2 fairs poorly and M2 dies.
#2 - Toughness. D2 and M2 shine. VG-10 seems to be tougher by (as mentioned) a very small (if any) advantage. When our Charpy tester comes in, we'll have more accurate comparisons. However, S-7 will offer 10 times the toughness of any of the discussed materials.
#3 - Edge retention (abrasion resistance). We use a CATRA and we mave a technician (Barry) that is ALWAYS testing. Our results put S90V and ZDP-189 at the top. Followed by S30V, BG-42 and then S60V. We didn't find D2 and M2 to rank as high, but others have, so we're doing a new battery of tests with M2 and D2.
and now we have #4 - cost. This is an area that few have looked at closely. BG-42, S90V, ZDP-189 are damned expensive. $15+ lb as an average. Processing costs (due to their extreme abarasion resistance) is also much more costly. VG-10 is in the $9-10 lb area, but import fees and shipping add much more to the cost. 440C can be had for much less and D2 can be had for $3 lb. Talonite tested well in all areas, but costs are significantly higher.
Soooo......whatchagonnadowithyourknife?
If you are just going to "look" at it, 420J2 should work just fine. Live on the coast or spend a lot of time in the salt, then corrosion resistance has a higher value. If you're cutting boxes and ties all day, then abrasion resistance is of high importance.
"Exotic" and "high cost" seem to go together.
It is great to live in a world where we have so many choices.
Spyderco tries to have the "best" overall (in our opinion) available in our models. We also try to have a lower cost variation in the line up.
Righ now we're using S30V in the USA facility and VG-10 in Japan. We use Hitachi (Japanese) ATS-34 and Aichi (Japanese) AUS-8 in our Taiwan pieces.
We use AUS-6 in our lower price point models.
Most dealers would prefer a lower cost AUS-6 or 8 on the grounds that most customers can't tell the difference and it makes for cheaper knives. Pehaps true, but many Spyderco customers are not average and seem to care enough to know the difference.
sal <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
First of all, all of the steels being discussed are all excellent steels and few would be disappointed in any of them for use.
For the most part, I must agree with Joe on his classifications.
This is really a 4 dimensional question and all dimensions would have to be considered for an accurate assesment.
#1 - Corrosion resistance is a big deal for many. 440C with it's "huge" amount of chrome (exceeded only by Timkin Latrobe's CV-20) is clearly superior in "Q-fog" testing, followed by VG-10. D-2 fairs poorly and M2 dies.
#2 - Toughness. D2 and M2 shine. VG-10 seems to be tougher by (as mentioned) a very small (if any) advantage. When our Charpy tester comes in, we'll have more accurate comparisons. However, S-7 will offer 10 times the toughness of any of the discussed materials.
#3 - Edge retention (abrasion resistance). We use a CATRA and we mave a technician (Barry) that is ALWAYS testing. Our results put S90V and ZDP-189 at the top. Followed by S30V, BG-42 and then S60V. We didn't find D2 and M2 to rank as high, but others have, so we're doing a new battery of tests with M2 and D2.
and now we have #4 - cost. This is an area that few have looked at closely. BG-42, S90V, ZDP-189 are damned expensive. $15+ lb as an average. Processing costs (due to their extreme abarasion resistance) is also much more costly. VG-10 is in the $9-10 lb area, but import fees and shipping add much more to the cost. 440C can be had for much less and D2 can be had for $3 lb. Talonite tested well in all areas, but costs are significantly higher.
Soooo......whatchagonnadowithyourknife?
If you are just going to "look" at it, 420J2 should work just fine. Live on the coast or spend a lot of time in the salt, then corrosion resistance has a higher value. If you're cutting boxes and ties all day, then abrasion resistance is of high importance.
"Exotic" and "high cost" seem to go together.
It is great to live in a world where we have so many choices.
Spyderco tries to have the "best" overall (in our opinion) available in our models. We also try to have a lower cost variation in the line up.
Righ now we're using S30V in the USA facility and VG-10 in Japan. We use Hitachi (Japanese) ATS-34 and Aichi (Japanese) AUS-8 in our Taiwan pieces.
We use AUS-6 in our lower price point models.
Most dealers would prefer a lower cost AUS-6 or 8 on the grounds that most customers can't tell the difference and it makes for cheaper knives. Pehaps true, but many Spyderco customers are not average and seem to care enough to know the difference.
sal <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
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alanforbes
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- Location: Newbury Park, CA USA
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alanforbes
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