Tdog wrote:I have gifted more knives than I've sold, that being said I propose a 5th option for the poll, and this would be my vote:
It is none of my business what anyone does with their own personal property.
If a person wants to collect knives great, if a person wants to resell their knives at what they paid, great. If a person wants to give away their knives great. If a person wants to sell their knives and can make a huge profit, great. It's really none of my business. It is good that we live in a free Country to do as we please.
I feel the same way, just like I feel it's none of my business if someone wishes to have an intimate relationship with a goat. OTOH, the fact that it's none of my business won't stop me from having, and even possibly expressing, an opinion as to the propriety of their behavior.
chuck_roxas45 wrote:As has been mentioned earlier, it's not so much the people who buy knives and find out that the knife not's for them and if they happen to get lucky, all the better. The negative emotion is directed at the people who buy multiples with the firm intention of selling them for profit as soon as they are able.
So if anybody has pre 1964 silver coins, I bet they didn't get them to flip at the time.
Exactly. The fairest comparison I can think of is event tickets. Non-essential, but desirable, item that's in limited supply. Those who "flip" them are called scalpers and are held in low regard by many people, even some who'd rather have a root canal than attend the event in question.
jtoler_9 wrote:I understand what you are saying Chuck, The question I have is WHY? Why the negative emotion? Who cares? The saying, "Can't we all just get along" comes to mind. Why the division? User vs non user. Flipper vs non flipper. The list goes on and on. Do we like spyderco knives? I hope so we spend a crazy amount of time on this forum. That is the common thread here. We all get excited for that next sprint run. It's called a SPRINT dude. You gotta run to get one.
And, just like any race, there are behaviors which some will view as acceptable but others will view as less than honorable.
The government tries to avoid abuse of the system all the time, so they have a lot of experience in this. I propose we look to them for advice in this situation. Ever heard of the "wash-sale rule"?
An Internal Revenue Service (IRS) rule prohibiting a taxpayer from claiming a loss on the sale of an investment when the same investment was purchased within 30 days before or after the sale date. Also know as the "30-day wash-sale rule".
In other words, you can't sell something at a loss, claim it as a deduction, and then buy the same thing right away.
So here is what I propose: Let's define the term "flip" to mean that you sell a knife at a profit within 30 days of acquiring it. After 30 days, it is no longer "flipping." Now with this definition, if you "flip," you are a bad person, and if you don't flip, you are not a bad person. We good?
akaAK wrote:Someone also indicated that it may partially be Spyderco's fault for not upping the count on sprints. I will leave the decision to them cause I have been around long enough to see knives being sold at deep discounts just to clear them (ask me about one of my favourites (CE Stretch not a sprint I know)). In the same vein as this entire thread, Spyderco needs to make the determination of what risk they are comfortable taking.
Since this has come up a couple of times I'd like to clarify that while the question of too little quantity to meet demand occasionally comes up with sprints, most of the time exclusives are the subject. These are ordered in a quantity specified by the distributor or dealer; Spyderco is not deciding the quantity.
Other than that quibble I agree with the above.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897
gaj999 wrote:I need to shut up, but one popular misconception really should be challenged. That is that it's wrong to raise prices of an essential good in an emergency situation. That's flat wrong, and preventing it makes the emergency worse. There are a couple of reasons. One is that high prices discourage hoarding and encourage people to use less of the good. More people can then get enough to get by, rather than just a lucky few who use more than they need. The other reason to allow prices to go up is that it results in a shorter emergency. If water in Colorado suddenly went to $1000 per gallon, half of the country would be scrambling, trying to figure out a way to cash in. Result? Water moves to Colorado. Lots of it. Really quickly. And prices fall. If we have an anti-gouging law, no one gets off their butt and we wait for some government bureaucrat who can't be fired to handle it. Their performance after Katrina was notable only for slowness, inefficiency, and exorbitant cost. No thanks.
Gordon
So.. gouging in a disaster is OK? Having been through several hurricanes, I assure you, it is not. Free markets take time to work. In a disaster, there is no time. Gouging can cost lives, encourage crime, and can generate vigilante actions. These are good laws and I'm glad they are aggressively enforced.
Spook410 wrote:So.. gouging in a disaster is OK? Having been through several hurricanes, I assure you, it is not. Free markets take time to work. In a disaster, there is no time. Gouging can cost lives, encourage crime, and can generate vigilante actions. These are good laws and I'm glad they are aggressively enforced.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think. But what's the point, anyway? He's still dead.
In defense to gaj999 and others in the "for" category this isn't exactly like stockpiling and selling penicillin to a suffering village at a mark-up. :)
The answer for Spyderco is to simply make more if people are going to profiteer. That or put a limit for a certain item and sell them solely through the SFO. If they sold 1200 CF/S90v Manix2's instead of 300 people wouldn't wail quite as loudly. It would also kick the profit margins in the butt (except for Spyderco) which by my math would approximately quadruple minus the expense of potentially keeping stock on the shelves.
What I DO have a major problem with is when dealers do this. They buy up half a dozen models and then whether transparent or maliciously sell them for multiple times their money. This is more or less insider trading (IMHO) and not the way the system is supposed to work. I hate to think this but I have to believe some preorders that aren't fulfilled is because some of them snuck off to the eBay chopping block.
It takes a stand-up person to sell a Dodo for $127 when you can get $150 or more all day. All the more reason to find a couple good dealers and support them.
PS: I don't flip but have changed my mind and made money. Usually I change my mind, sell, and lose a bit, then watch the value climb where I should have sold. :p
Blerv wrote:In defense to gaj999 and others in the "for" category this isn't exactly like stockpiling and selling penicillin to a suffering village at a mark-up. :)
You guys just don't get it. You make fun of "sheeple" who fear knives and then turn around and act like sheep herded by media hysteria on this subject. If the choice is penicillin at a mark up or no penicillin at all, you'd choose none? In a very real sense, that's the decision that many here are advocating. Speculators provide liquidity. Markets work better with liquidity. Markets are the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources. This is simple, simple, basic stuff. Anyone who lives in the US and doesn't understand this isn't fulfilling their responsibility as a citizen. It's no wonder that the US is quickly becoming just another socialist worker's paradise.
The Mastiff wrote:I haven't ever bought a knife with the intention of flipping it. I have had to sell some of my best ( example: S90V millie) due to things like emergency bills ( usually dog health, I spent well over $3000 on Finn's vet bills last year alone, and about $1800 so far this year). In cases like that I will ask the going price for them, but always try to 1) sell to a forumite and 2) if it's a forumite I lower the price when I can, as much as I can afford to. That's an iffy thing though as it's usually inspired by an emergency type situation.
If I didn't want the knife to begin with I wouldn't buy it. I used to sell knives at gunshows but gave that up. I leave it to real dealers now.
Joe
As the proud purchaser/owner of Joe's S90V millie, I will confirm that - still loving that knife Joe, it now shares EDC rotation with my M390 millie. Joe made out OK on that knife, but I was happy to pay every penny, and I could tell he was pained to let it go. Knowing that it went to help out his pup now only gives it more meaning.
Personally I buy em to use em. Somehow I did order 2 of the M390's though. I'm keeping the second as a backup, but I could see circumstances (like Joe) coming along where I'd send it on it's way.
Dave
My current Spydercos: Military CF S90V, (2) Military CF M390, Navaja CF S30V, Superleaf CF VG-10, Manix 2 CF CTS-XHP, Manix 2 CF S90V, Paramilitary 2 CF S90V, Stretch 2 CF ZDP-189, Sage 1 CF S30V, Lum Chinese CF VG-10, Caly 3 CF ZDP-189, Chaparral CF S30V, Kiwi CF VG-10, Chicago CF S30V, Cat CF S30V, Schempp Rock VG-10, Temperance 2 VG-10 :spyder:
After reading through the thread, it has shown me the true colors of the forum and how people will not hesitate to take advantage of another person (even other fellow forum members) and bend them over without a second thought and without batting an eye. Perhaps times have changed, as coming to this forum has never made me feel this way until lately.
Jay_Ev wrote:After reading through the thread, it has shown me the true colors of the forum and how people will not hesitate to take advantage of another person (even other fellow forum members) and bend them over without a second thought and without batting an eye. Perhaps times have changed, as coming to this forum has never made me feel this way until lately.
If both parties are happy with the transaction, who are you to criticize? Nobody gets bent over, they do it voluntarily. All this overheated verbiage over simple economics, it's silly. Ignorance of the laws of economics does not prevent them from working. It only prevents you from being happy. Learn some economics. Try this:
If it was good enough timing to where i could sell one to fund the purchase of another different knife, I would. I'd like to say that as of this moment i wouldn't mark the price up a ton but if someone was willing to pay double the price i paid, I cant say i wouldnt.
for example: I wish now that I had ordered 2 orange para2s, so that I could sell one to buy a green para 2 sprint. I only ordered 1 orange and the thought of flipping one didnt even cross my mind at the time and I didnt even know about the green para 2 until it was too late... If they were taking preorders on 2 sites at the same time and I thought I'd want both...I would have preordered 2 of the same knives to finance the other sprint.
I see NO point in buying 2 unless you're going to sell 1 of them. I'm not a collector and I think it's silly to collect a knife to let it sit in a case for years. Similar to owning a sports car that you only drive 1 day a week, no point in letting it sit in your garage
gaj999 wrote:You guys just don't get it. You make fun of "sheeple" who fear knives and then turn around and act like sheep herded by media hysteria on this subject. If the choice is penicillin at a mark up or no penicillin at all, you'd choose none? In a very real sense, that's the decision that many here are advocating. Speculators provide liquidity. Markets work better with liquidity. Markets are the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources. This is simple, simple, basic stuff. Anyone who lives in the US and doesn't understand this isn't fulfilling their responsibility as a citizen. It's no wonder that the US is quickly becoming just another socialist worker's paradise.
Gordon
Did you actually read the point I was taking a moment to see your side?
Fine I take it back. Also, come up with your own analogies, don't try to "flip" mine. :p
Jay_Ev wrote:After reading through the thread, it has shown me the true colors of the forum and how people will not hesitate to take advantage of another person (even other fellow forum members) and bend them over without a second thought and without batting an eye. Perhaps times have changed, as coming to this forum has never made me feel this way until lately.
How so Jay? A few vocal people on one side of the fence and a moment of discussion can't impact the majority. If you take the people who voted "routinely flip" as a true percentage (ha!) of the TOTAL forum it's still only 7%. Being that this represents 8 people it's hardly accurate.
If that's the case the internet speaks spades for civilization and our doomsday is counting down at a terrifying pace.
Blerv wrote:Did you actually read the point I was taking a moment to see your side?
Fine I take it back. Also, come up with your own analogies, don't try to "flip" mine. :p
I read it. This jumped out at me: "... this isn't exactly like stockpiling and selling penicillin to a suffering village at a mark-up"
Clearly, you're missing my entire point, because the two are exactly the same. That you feel that either one is somehow bad merely highlights your ignorance. If it's all the same to you, please don't defend my point, you're making me look bad. :p
Yes, I've been drinking, quite a lot tonight actually, so I'll just apologize in advance for my attitude. My position will be the same tomorrow, but I'll probably be much less obnoxious. I'm pretty much done here anyway, trying to teach simple economics to people who didn't learn it as children is hopeless anyway and I do know better. My bad. Blame it on the tequila.
gaj999 wrote:You guys just don't get it. You make fun of "sheeple" who fear knives and then turn around and act like sheep herded by media hysteria on this subject. If the choice is penicillin at a mark up or no penicillin at all, you'd choose none? In a very real sense, that's the decision that many here are advocating. Speculators provide liquidity. Markets work better with liquidity. Markets are the most efficient way to allocate scarce resources. This is simple, simple, basic stuff. Anyone who lives in the US and doesn't understand this isn't fulfilling their responsibility as a citizen. It's no wonder that the US is quickly becoming just another socialist worker's paradise.
Gordon
I'm fine with people doing whatever they want with their knives. That's free market. Comparing this to gouging in disasters, which is not a free market, reflects some key misapplications of the concept. I see what you're trying to say, I just completely disagree with it.
Although, it would be cooler if only "fans" got the sprints.
The Ferrari Enzo wasn't available to anyone, Ferrari chose customers who were repeat customers that respected the brand. That way, the people who appreciated them the most got them. :cool:
Spyderco please make a wire clip version of the Manbug/Ladybug!
![[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/saintdog/knives/DSC_3022Large.jpg){kind=link}
