Buy Sprints, then Flip Them at a Profit?

[kurt6652]

Most of the sprint runs are announced far enough ahead for most vigilant knife enthusiasts to plan ahead and buy. If you didn't get the one you want there is always something coming out that is new or better. I have a couple of sprints that I bought doubles of, I haven't sold any yet. When I sell them if ever,it will be close to what I see others selling for at the time,either less or more than I paid. If it is more I won't feel guilty, if it is less I am sure the person who buys it will not care about my loss.

[Art_vandeley]

I am actually having a hard time trading a sprint run model that I am not using. I bought it this year with the intend of trading or selling it if I didn`t like it. I thought it`d be more popular, but I have a hard time even trading it for a regular production knife.

If I`d lived in the US it would be easier I`m sure, but as of now response has been very low. I wonder why so many americans are afraid of shipping international. I`ve bought all my knives and gear overseas (mostly from the US) and I never had a problem.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Oh am I Late for this party....excuse me...... :eek: Now I want everyone to take everything I say with a grain of salt because I am a dealer and I own a storefront Knife Retail Business. I sell knives btw I don't flip them, but of course I make a profit and I do buy them with the intention to resell and make money doing such just like the flipper....I am not one of those dealers that engages myself in the practice of buying and storing multiples of any type of sprint runs, or even possible soon to be discontinued models or doing any such pre-ordering for the store either.

Now I have spent the time to read this entire thread and found it very interesting and informative to read different view points on this issue that I really never gave much thought to. It always seemed like flippers as you call em bought them up and resold them for a profit, but they were still putting these very same NIB knives back on the market for those whose really want them....So getting the holy grail you want if you missed the line to the sprint run is not really a valid argument, you can still get said knife, if you have to pay a little more, it balances out the really good deal you got on something else. I don't have a problem with others taking the opportunity to make money on something that everybody knows is going to go up in value....Remember to do that involves work, it's not just a click of the button and you flipped your knife....To me anyone who wants to put their energy into something like that as opposed to someone who doesn't deserves to be rewarded. Maybe I'm missing the point here on the division between the two sides, but I can tell you this...both camps make valid and persuasive arguments for their point of view. And to be honest I agree with everyone from both camps.....Guess that makes me weird.

The idea of flipping is never going to go away and it happens in every industry by people who may be personally interested in or not, in that industry's products for resale based on profit margins by inflating prices for frenzied panicky buyers who are willing to do business with them...and since that happens the cycle begins all over again.

I have grown too old for the frenzied panicky buying selling thingy, experience has taught me in the end I just end up frenzied and panicky no matter which side of the table I am on....So I don't play that game....but I won't point a finger and certainly won't speak ill of those whose choose to play Wall Street with Knife Futures.......With all profit gaining ventures there are also risks involved. The lower risk factor, the more individuals who wish to jump on board the profit taking machine, but there can be risks involved, it's just like anything else, when people decide no I'm not going to pay that inflated price...it could change things, however the fact is unless they all decide that on the same day at the same moment in time the situation will not change nor can it be sustained for those who feel slighted by the profit knife takers and flippers........so why feel slighted it's not personal...it's business for some even if it's just a hobby for you......and you are hearing this directly from the guy's mouth who said when a pack of cigs rise from the price of Twenty Five cents a pack to Fifty Cents.....I'll never buy another pack!!!!!............Doc :)

FWIW: I paid $10.24 today for a pack........**** Cigarette Flippers.........
Just one final thought.....Thank you to the OP "Kenneth" for this poll and thread, I didn't vote as I felt no option applied to me but it was most certainly an eyeopening read and view of a little talked about world "lets call it the Baghdad Knife Exchange. :)

[Fat Goat Forge]

SENTIMENTALLY, of course, guys on these forums get bent out of shape about the market effects of these secondary-market sellers. But what they're doing isn't morally culpable, unless you also reject most forms of speculation for profit.

Legal yes moral no. There are always karmic consequences from not doing the right thing. It is your right to claim a knife that you do not want to collect and plan to flip immediately but by taking this action you deny a forum member the chance to enjoy the print. Legal does not = correct, right action.

I'm considering changing my mind on buying 1 rather than 2 of future sprints. I think I will buy one for me and one to sell for the purchase price + $6.00 for a flat rate small box on the secondary market. By doing this I will deny 1 knife to the flippers and provide 1 to a forum member who missed the sprint.

In my world view Karma always sorts things out. You flip a knife only to get a flat tire which absorbs the profit, you get a second to offer at the purchase price (or other right actions) and always the universe smiles upon you.

Oh and untill 25 years ago we did not allow speculation on oil futures unless you were in the oil business and could actually physically take delivery of the oil as economists and legislatore felt that rampant speculation of the life blood of our economy was not a good idea. But now we do so that wall street firms can make commissions on sales of oil futures and speculation drives prices of oil and gas very high. It is probably not in the interest of society to allow a full open market on certain products like oil and rice and corn. Corn has spiked and there are plenty of tortillias in mexico but many go hungry due to artificially high prices. It would be better to go back to only those in the business of oil and corn trading. And I will get a second and offer it on the secondary market at a fair deal as an act of protest against Spyderco Speculators.

[BAL]

The point to me is this. I don't care if someone buys and flips. Its legal and if someone wants to overpay
to buy whatever they want, no one is twisting their arm. If you miss out on a sprint, then you miss out.
It's not life and death like the scenerio I mentioned earlier. Duh, I was just pointing out (maybe poorly)
that some don't like it.

Basically it is creating another middle man. Sure the role of middle man feeds many families in this country,
but it is what drives the cost of everything that we buy. Any product that you buy whether its a knife or food
doesn't cost anywhere near what you pay for it. Shipping, hauling, storage, overhead ......., we all know the
routine.

The flipping of Spyderco knives has and will always happen. A flipper is just another middle man in the line.
I think that the issue here is that so many of us post on here and share our love for this or that particular
knife and how much we would like to have one and then the long waiting game starts. Many Spyderco'a are
so popular that they don't stay around long and if you don't have the funds at the time or miss out when they
first are available, then the only way to get one is to overpay.
You don't have to have it to survive, but it's like an extended family on here and many feel the same way.
It"s similar to the companies that buy the concert or sports tickets in bulk and then up the price by adding
other things to a package along with the price of the ticket to legally be able to spike the original price.

Just because something is legal and many do it, doesn't mean that others have to like it. That's all.

[BAL]

The point to me is this. I don't care if someone buys and flips. Its legal and if someone wants to overpay
to buy whatever they want, no one is twisting their arm. If you miss out on a sprint, then you miss out.
It's not life and death like the scenerio I mentioned earlier. Duh, I was just pointing out (maybe poorly)
that some don't like it.

Basically it is creating another middle man. Sure the role of middle man feeds many families in this country,
but it is what drives the cost of everything that we buy. Any product that you buy whether its a knife or food
doesn't cost anywhere near what you pay for it. Shipping, hauling, storage, overhead ......., we all know the
routine.

The flipping of Spyderco knives has and will always happen. A flipper is just another middle man in the line.
I think that the issue here is that so many of us post on here and share our love for this or that particular
knife and how much we would like to have one and then the long waiting game starts. Many Spyderco'a are
so popular that they don't stay around long and if you don't have the funds at the time or miss out when they
first are available, then the only way to get one is to overpay.
You don't have to have it to survive, but it's like an extended family on here and many feel the same way.
It"s similar to the companies that buy the concert or sports tickets in bulk and then up the price by adding
other things to a package along with the price of the ticket to legally be able to spike the original price.

Just because something is legal and many do it, doesn't mean that others have to like it. That's all.

[akaAK]

Oh and about the want vs. need thing, we also know that our "spyderdiction" makes our wants seem like need. [/QUOTE]

Believe me it is sometimes very difficult to make the distinction. The harder it gets to make the distinction, the more important making it becomes. Lets be honest me spend this much time on this forum cause we are not always entirely rationale. Not saying it is right or wrong but where there are sheep, there are wolves.

Someone also indicated that it may partially be Spyderco's fault for not upping the count on sprints. I will leave the decision to them cause I have been around long enough to see knives being sold at deep discounts just to clear them (ask me about one of my favourites (CE Stretch not a sprint I know)). In the same vein as this entire thread, Spyderco needs to make the determination of what risk they are comfortable taking.

[JNewell]

Where's the little emoticon that shows someone punching the time clock? :) I'm going to check out here...nothing really new, and too much risk of stirring up bad feelings with folks here who I value and don't want to offend (any more than I might already have ).

:spyder:

[jtoler_9]

Legal yes moral no. There are always karmic consequences from not doing the right thing. It is your right to claim a knife that you do not want to collect and plan to flip immediately but by taking this action you deny a forum member the chance to enjoy the print. Legal does not = correct, right

Interesting point of view. So if I understand correctly, anyone who buys something that someone else wanted really really bad only to sell that item to someone who also wants it really really bad, is in a deficit with Karma? If that's true then I feel bad for Jay Leno with all of those rare cars that I would love to have.
It will be an interesting experiment to say the least. I will let you know if Karma comes looking for me for depriving all the... What do we call them? Poor unfortunate knife collecting enthusiasts? I will work on that title because that just sounds rediculous to me.

[dj moonbat]

Just because something is legal and many do it, doesn't mean that others have to like it. That's all.

Of course. But not liking something is not the same as being able to say that something is morally wrong.

Flippers are buying low(ish), and trying to sell high. This is quintessentially American behavior.

I might be more upset about flippers if Spyderco had a sub-3" sprint platform, but they don't -- so I'm able to be level-headed about it. Supply is low; demand is high. Don't hate the playa; hate the game.

[RIOT]

i never understood being pissed at a seller on ebay, the person is just posting something for sale, you dont have to bid on it, nobody is pointing a gun to your head saying bid now.

if anything i get mad at the idiots that bid right away driving the cost up on the item they want, i only bid on what i want in the last 10 seconds once.

nothing wrong with buying something and selling it later when it becomes hard to find.

to be honest i get pissed at myself for not buying the knife when it came out, i dont blame the seller later, i should have bought at distributors prices instead of passing on it.

[jtoler_9]

Of course. But not liking something is not the same as being able to say that something is morally wrong.
.

Finally. AMEN.
This has been my sentiment exactly. There are posts in this thread attacking people claiming they are "morally corrupt" because they buy and sell a fricken KNIFE. Seriously? Where's the perspective here?

If I said anyone who owns more than 2 knives is a horrible hoarder and morally bankrupt, would that statement ruffle some feathers around here? I bet it would. There's no reason to pass a moral judgment on anyone in this forum no matter what they do with their stuff. That’s really my only point to make here. I’m out.

Off my soapbox.

[markg]

I have not ever bought a knife with the intention of selling it for a higher price due to demand. Since a Sprint Run Spyderco knife is not a "necessity" like food, energy, or shelter... I don't consider this to be a "moral" issue. Frankly if you feel that buying a high end knife that is in demand for, and then selling it to a collector for a profit is a moral failing... You need to spend a year in a third world country working with some starving children... In other words, you need to recalibrate your moral compass. Is it irritating? Yes, immoral... Ah...

I have flipped knives (Yojimbo's, and Dodo's) but that was just because I got them at closeout prices then when I needed some money I was able to sell them at 3-4 times what I paid for them.

Frankly, most of the people who sell a Sprint Run knife on eBay for double the normal price, see the knife sit there for like... FOREVER. Just because you see a knife listed on eBay for a ton of money does not mean the knife is actually worth a ton of money.

[Shakyamuni]

With all profit gaining ventures there are also risks involved. The lower risk factor, the more individuals who wish to jump on board the profit taking machine, but there can be risks involved, it's just like anything else, when people decide no I'm not going to pay that inflated price...it could change things, however the fact is unless they all decide that on the same day at the same moment in time the situation will not change nor can it be sustained for those who feel slighted by the profit knife takers and flippers........so why feel slighted it's not personal...it's business for some even if it's just a hobby for you......and you are hearing this directly from the guy's mouth who said when a pack of cigs rise from the price of Twenty Five cents a pack to Fifty Cents.....I'll never buy another pack!!!!!............Doc

Well said doc. There are definitely risks involved, because just like the dot-com bubble and the housing bubble, at some point the Spyderco bubble may burst, and whoever is left holding the hot potato at the end is going to lose their shirt. With FOUR Para 2 sprints in the matter of 6 months, I think there is a very real possibility that supply may exceed demand.

We already saw this with the Military M390 sprint which took months to sell out, the aftermarket prices of those that sold were not that inflated, and there were still 59 leftover after all was said and done.

How do I know the market is going to crash? Because I bought an extra Green Para 2 with the intention of selling it, and I have the uncanny ability of timing markets at precisely the wrong time: buy high and sell low is my motto.

[jeffc]

Shak. Great point of view. The bubble does burst in all markets eventually. I think we are far from it on the knife and for that matter gun front. With prepping becoming a household term we will only see more people starting to hoard weapons. Just my .02 on it.

[gaj999]

I need to shut up, but one popular misconception really should be challenged. That is that it's wrong to raise prices of an essential good in an emergency situation. That's flat wrong, and preventing it makes the emergency worse. There are a couple of reasons. One is that high prices discourage hoarding and encourage people to use less of the good. More people can then get enough to get by, rather than just a lucky few who use more than they need. The other reason to allow prices to go up is that it results in a shorter emergency. If water in Colorado suddenly went to $1000 per gallon, half of the country would be scrambling, trying to figure out a way to cash in. Result? Water moves to Colorado. Lots of it. Really quickly. And prices fall. If we have an anti-gouging law, no one gets off their butt and we wait for some government bureaucrat who can't be fired to handle it. Their performance after Katrina was notable only for slowness, inefficiency, and exorbitant cost. No thanks.

Gordon

[sir_mike]

Well said doc. There are definitely risks involved, because just like the dot-com bubble and the housing bubble, at some point the Spyderco bubble may burst, and whoever is left holding the hot potato at the end is going to lose their shirt. With FOUR Para 2 sprints in the matter of 6 months, I think there is a very real possibility that supply may exceed demand.

We already saw this with the Military M390 sprint which took months to sell out, the aftermarket prices of those that sold were not that inflated, and there were still 59 leftover after all was said and done.

How do I know the market is going to crash? Because I bought an extra Green Para 2 with the intention of selling it, and I have the uncanny ability of timing markets at precisely the wrong time: buy high and sell low is my motto.

I think a big part of the reason certain sprints dont sell out fast is because of the price. It is easier for me to order a $120 sprint knife vs a $220 (or more) sprint knife. I do agree that if they kick out too many sprints if will fee more like a production knife with different scales and to me they wont be as collectable or as much of a want for me to buy.

[Art_vandeley]

Question to those marked speculators: Is there a reason the Dodo is having a hard time selling? I saw several FT threads for Dodos, and they are still up after being listed 2 weeks ago. Same for trade. Is the demand so low after the initial hype?

[Slash]

I buy and sell lots of things to supplement my income, knives are one of them. Doing so helps put food on the table and fuel my other addictions.
Geuss you could say I'm a collector of fortune.

[jeffc]

Question to those marked speculators: Is there a reason the Dodo is having a hard time selling? I saw several FT threads for Dodos, and they are still up after being listed 2 weeks ago. Same for trade. Is the demand so low after the initial hype?

I would speculate the rumor of an s90v version in carbon fiber
Is the reason its not going up.