Maintaining ZDP, SharpMaker, Lansky, Edge Pro?

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kennethsime
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Maintaining ZDP, SharpMaker, Lansky, Edge Pro?

#1

Post by kennethsime »

Hi everyone,

So it's been about a month or so since I got my Stretch, and I've started noticing the edge just not quite being what it was fresh from the factory. It'll still do post-its without tearing, and it'll shave, but it does tear the extra-thin paper we use in the shop for sharpening demonstrations (some times ;) ) I've also picked up a couple german Henckels since then that I'd like to be able to keep up.

So, the question becomes which system is for me? I do like the Sharpmaker, or any croc stick set up, but I feel it's not exact enough (and even on the new sharpmakers, you only have two angles to choose from).

The Lansky seems like the next logical step, because of the two extra angles to choose from, as well as the plethora of stones. They've also introduced a leather strop this year. But I finally saw it in action the other day, a video of a guy with it in his vise clamp, and the thing just really didn't seem all that stable. Does their stand provide a more stable base?

We have an edge-pro in the shop (strictly on display) and I've never used it, but I recently watched some of their tutorial videos and was really impressed. But is the Apex worth the extra hundred bucks over the Lansky?

I realize that at some point, like so many things in the knife world, it merely becomes a question of how much money you want to spend, and how nice you need for your uses. For now, the owner of the shop will sharpen whatever I leave for him (and he does an excellent job). But I'd like to be self-sufficient, so to speak. So, if you were in my position, what route would you go?

Sharpmaker? Lansky (traditional or diamond plus a ceramic ultrafine)? Save for the EdgePro Apex (or start a non-profit and request donations for the Pro model)?

Sidebar: I emailed customer service the other day and they said most knives leave their factory with a 15-17 degree bevel. That would be per-side, meaning 30-34 inclusive, correct? Am I correct in thinking the Sharpmaker will do 15 and 20 per side, or 30 and 40 inclusive?
I'm happiest with Micarta and Tool Steel.

Top four in rotation: K390 + GCM PM2, ZCarta Shaman, Crucarta PM2, K390 + GCM Straight Spine Stretch.
.357 mag
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#2

Post by .357 mag »

All of them will sharpen ZDP. Just depends on how fast and how refined you want the edge. The EP will do both with ease. It will for the most part laugh at ZDP as well as any steel. I've never used a Lansky or a sharpmaker so i can't comment. I do use spyderco 302 ultra fine stone I use to maintain my edges and love it.

I would recommend the Apex 1 ( comes with the 220,320 stone) and then get the sharpmaker with the UF rods. This will give you a great bevel. Then maintain a microbevel with the sharpmaker.
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#3

Post by jacobwilson99 »

I have an Endura ZDP. I have a Lansky and I didn't hate it until I sharpened ZDP on it. It will sharpen fine, I have mine to a mirror polish with the UF stone. BUT, it sucked. Since the Endura is FFG, I had to like the clamp with a cloth, because the angled blade would move around in the clamp. Yet, with the cloth, I couldn't seem to get the clamp sharp enough. And THEN! the stones sharpened at different angles. I got down to the fine stone, and when I started on the UF, it would begin a new microbevel.

IMO, the Lansky is not precise enough. It's a great budget sharpener. I think the Wicked Edge is even more precise than the Edge Pro (and comes with more options). I would get a Wicked Edge over an Edge Pro if I was going to spend the money for an expensive sharpener.
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chuck_roxas45
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#4

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

jacobwilson99 wrote:I have an Endura ZDP. I have a Lansky and I didn't hate it until I sharpened ZDP on it. It will sharpen fine, I have mine to a mirror polish with the UF stone. BUT, it sucked. Since the Endura is FFG, I had to like the clamp with a cloth, because the angled blade would move around in the clamp. Yet, with the cloth, I couldn't seem to get the clamp sharp enough. And THEN! the stones sharpened at different angles. I got down to the fine stone, and when I started on the UF, it would begin a new microbevel.

IMO, the Lansky is not precise enough. It's a great budget sharpener. I think the Wicked Edge is even more precise than the Edge Pro (and comes with more options). I would get a Wicked Edge over an Edge Pro if I was going to spend the money for an expensive sharpener.
Use some masking or double sided tape on the part of the spine where the clamp's jaws hold on to the knife. That will make for a solid hold.
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Evil D
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#5

Post by Evil D »

jacobwilson99 wrote:I have an Endura ZDP. I have a Lansky and I didn't hate it until I sharpened ZDP on it. It will sharpen fine, I have mine to a mirror polish with the UF stone. BUT, it sucked. Since the Endura is FFG, I had to like the clamp with a cloth, because the angled blade would move around in the clamp. Yet, with the cloth, I couldn't seem to get the clamp sharp enough. And THEN! the stones sharpened at different angles. I got down to the fine stone, and when I started on the UF, it would begin a new microbevel.

IMO, the Lansky is not precise enough. It's a great budget sharpener. I think the Wicked Edge is even more precise than the Edge Pro (and comes with more options). I would get a Wicked Edge over an Edge Pro if I was going to spend the money for an expensive sharpener.
The thing about the Lansky not being precise...well, it's repeatable, which i think is the most important part. If you pay attention to how you set it up and you set it up the same every time, you'll get great results every time. Also now that i have an edge pro, i've sharpened a few knives on it that were done on my Lansky, and i'd say it was within just a few degrees of what i thought it was on the Lansky so if used right it's pretty accurate. There's a lot of the same variables that apply to the Edge Pro that can make the actual degree of the bevel higher or lower than advertised. With the stones sharpening at different levels...first, make sure the rods are dead straight when you put them in the stone...lay them on a known flat surface before you tighten them down and make sure the rods aren't bent. It helped me a lot that i just didn't take the rods out...once i had them straight, i left them in the stones and never had an issue with them being at different levels. As for sharpening ZDP, you just have to let the stones work and don't try to manhandle it or you'll cause micro chipping and slow yourself down. As for the cloth/clamping thing...don't bother with that. Adjust the clamp so the sides of the clamp lay flat on the FFG. Yes, this will lower the degree that you sharpen at, but only by a couple degrees, not much at all, not enough to matter really. Use painters tape on the CLAMP, not on the blade...tape the underside of both sides of the clamp. Refer to this thread for how far out from the edge to clamp onto the blade, and stick to the same distance out ever time and you'll get awesome results. http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... ght=Lansky
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#6

Post by Tdog »

I've noticed a couple of 1x or 2x 30" belt sanders out there as well. They come with different grades of paper and also have a leather strop available. Has anyone tried these? Seems they would be quick, simple, and work well if one knew how to use it properly :confused:
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jackknifeh
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#7

Post by jackknifeh »

How much money do you have to spend? If you want to be able to put any angle you want on any knife and polish the bevels to a mirror finish with a razor sharp edge buy an Edge Pro Apex. Get the small set with two stones if you want ($170 or so). You can get other stones later. Or go ahead and get the Apex 4 which has all of EPs stones and some other stuff. Do that if money isn't a problem. If you don't get an Edge Pro definately get the Sharpmaker. I think it is the best "system" for the money. I used the DMT aligner system which is similar to the Lansky. Any system that uses a clamp to hold the knife blade will be subject to NOT holding some blades at a 90 degree angle. That will cause your bevels to be different angles on opposite sides. Also, the edge may get "off center". All of the systems will give you a razor sharp edge that will shave your face if you want. There's just a few things I don't like about them. I spent almost $100 on the DMT system with extra stones, then got the EP later. So, if you don't have the money for an EP now, get the Sharpmaker. You may be happy with it for ever. Lots of people are. If you do get an EP later, keep the Sharpmaker for touch ups. Several people who have both use the EP for reprofiling and the Sharpmaker for every day maintenance. Or let it go to a fellow forum member to help with the EP price. You just can't sell it directly on this forum.

Jack
PS edit: You mentioned ZDP. Sharpen this steel the same way as all others. I will say that the good habits you develope will be essential and need to be more precise for the harder steels. When I wasn't having any trouble with VG-10 and others, ZDP kicked my butt. I had to refine my skills to be more accurate. Most people I think have found this to be normal who are not already accomplished sharpeners. People who are learning how to get the really sharp edges (like me) will have trouble with the harder steels. I know I did until I got used to it.
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#8

Post by Tdog »

Is there significant difference between the "regular stones" and "chosera stones" that are available for the Apex?
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jackknifeh
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#9

Post by jackknifeh »

Tdog wrote:Is there significant difference between the "regular stones" and "chosera stones" that are available for the Apex?
Yes, the price. I've never used chosera stones but heard good things about them. I've been getting some stones from Congress Tools lately. They have lots and lots of different type stones the right size for the EP. You have to have a blank though and glue the stone to it. A new blank from EP is about $10 I think. Seems pretty high to me but... The EP stones are very nice and I don't plan on spending more for stones than they cost. They are $16 for a new one with blank. A new stone without blank is $8 I think. The stones from Congress Tools are between $5 and $6. I really like the moldmaster and FLEX type stones from Congress. At the moment the FLEX stones leave a "closer to mirror" finish than any stones I've used. The moldmaster stones eat metal like candy and leave a very consistant "foggy like" finish. Very easy to finish the bevel to mirror after a 400 or 600 grit MM stone. I'd love to hear some opinions on the Chosera stones. But they would have to be pretty darn impressive to triple the amount I'll pay for just one.

Jack
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chuck_roxas45
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#10

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

I made my own blanks from some aluminum framing. Pretty easy to do. Cost me maybe .50 cents each.
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Jet B
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#11

Post by Jet B »

I picked the wicked edge personally, but I'm sure I would have been more than happy with an Edge pro too.

I have all the diamond stones and strops with diamond paste and I don't have any issues sharpening my Zdp blade. I don't notice any difference from working S30V. Must be the diamonds.

Can't wait to try some M390 soon.

The wicked Edge works great, but you do need to learn how to clamp your blades properly, it is very fast once the knife is set up. I think the Edge pro would have been nice since you don't have the headache of clamping, although its naturally going to be slower plus you need to maintain the stones I think. I would like to try one some day.
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#12

Post by jackknifeh »

Jet B wrote:I picked the wicked edge personally, but I'm sure I would have been more than happy with an Edge pro too.

I have all the diamond stones and strops with diamond paste and I don't have any issues sharpening my Zdp blade. I don't notice any difference from working S30V. Must be the diamonds.

Can't wait to try some M390 soon.

The wicked Edge works great, but you do need to learn how to clamp your blades properly, it is very fast once the knife is set up. I think the Edge pro would have been nice since you don't have the headache of clamping, although its naturally going to be slower plus you need to maintain the stones I think. I would like to try one some day.
If a system has a way to clamp a blade correctly consistantly I wouldn't have anything against a clamp system myself. The reason is that with the EP you hold the knife with one hand. Of course you need to hold it still during every stroke from start to finish. I made some blocks I call Edge Guide Blocks (EGB) to keep the blade from pivoting on the EP when the spine isn't straight. Is there a Spyderco with a straight spine? Don't think so. :)

Everyone who uses a WE system likes it. Never heard a bad word from an owner. Except maybe just that they are more expensive than the EP. I decided a long time ago that price just doesn't matter as long as you can afford it. Get what you want. I'm not rich by any means but I hate having a tool that I'm not satisfied with because it is just "good enough".

Jack
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#13

Post by jackknifeh »

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I made my own blanks from some aluminum framing. Pretty easy to do. Cost me maybe .50 cents each.
Where do you get aluminum framing? Lowe's I hope? I have one close. Oh yeah, Ace Hardware too. Other than that it's Wal Mart or Emmitt's General Store. :)

Jack
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#14

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

jackknifeh wrote:Where do you get aluminum framing? Lowe's I hope? I have one close. Oh yeah, Ace Hardware too. Other than that it's Wal Mart or Emmitt's General Store. :)

Jack
I don't have Lowe's or Ace near me but we do have some glass and aluminum supply shops.
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#15

Post by jackknifeh »

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I don't have Lowe's or Ace near me but we do have some glass and aluminum supply shops.
Thanks. I'll call Lowe's to see. They open in 55 minutes. Maybe they have some. If not, I'll look for the other shops. I live in a small town and most of the smaller shops and stores closed with the opening of a Super Wal Mart years ago. There are still some of the more specialized shops around though.

There is one small hardware store on Main St. that has been there forever. It even has old men that sit there all day. :D Very friendly place.

Jack
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chuck_roxas45
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#16

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

jackknifeh wrote:Thanks. I'll call Lowe's to see. They open in 55 minutes. Maybe they have some. If not, I'll look for the other shops. I live in a small town and most of the smaller shops and stores closed with the opening of a Super Wal Mart years ago. There are still some of the more specialized shops around though.

There is one small hardware store on Main St. that has been there forever. It even has old men that sit there all day. :D Very friendly place.

Jack
I'm sure I live in a smaller town than you Jack. :D

Just look for aluminum bars or plates of the proper thickness. Too thick is ok since you have the drill bit collar. To thin can be flexible and will eff up your edge angle.
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#17

Post by quinoa »

If I could afford it I'd get the Sungold New! American made Slo-Speed Knife Sharpener $575.
I am not however a professional knife sharpener which that machine is ideally suited for.
I'd choose the Work shop WSKTS at a tenth of that price. Gonna get me one soon as Smiths
is problematic with their clamp again.
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chuck_roxas45
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#18

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

quinoa wrote:If I could afford it I'd get the Sungold New! American made Slo-Speed Knife Sharpener $575.
I am not however a professional knife sharpener which that machine is ideally suited for.
I'd choose the Work shop WSKTS at a tenth of that price. Gonna get me one soon as Smiths
is problematic with their clamp again.
Yes, those sungolds look good. I'd like to see some reviews though. Results from the machine would be nice to see.
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#19

Post by kbuzbee »

I'll add a question to this thread regarding systems (specifically EP and Wicked, I suppose) when using them on longer knives, like 8"-10" kitchen knives. Do they work well? I've use 8"x3" bench stones freehand for larger knives but I've always wondered if larger knives were a problem for these "systems"?

Ken
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#20

Post by Evil D »

kbuzbee wrote:I'll add a question to this thread regarding systems (specifically EP and Wicked, I suppose) when using them on longer knives, like 8"-10" kitchen knives. Do they work well? I've use 8"x3" bench stones freehand for larger knives but I've always wondered if larger knives were a problem for these "systems"?

Ken
I can't speak on the Wicked Edge, but the Lanksy isn't good for much over 4 inches. As for the Edge Pro, the first knife i did on it was a large chef's knife and it worked beautifully.
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