CPM-S35VN and CrimsonTideShooter test

[chuck_roxas45]

Jim and Johns' tests are both valid and their findings are not mutually exclusive. We must not be distracted from the issue of interest here: evaluating a "new" steel.

I am grateful for any additional information amateur testers can provide: research will always produce conflicting or disparate results due to myriad variations in method, sample, study design etc.

We must evaluate results objectively; difficult when knives are a passion.

If you shoot the messengers, you stop receiving news!

Words of wisdom and well written too.

[sal]

Spyderco's afi's are just a worldwide R&D lab.

sal

[l2lku]

Hi 12lku, Maxbelg,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Certainly a controversial subject in which you chose to participate.

Hope you enjoy your time here. Lot of very special members.

sal

Thank you Sal.

I have enjoyed CTS's video and found them informative.

I like that he shows the entire process from start to finish so that viewers can make up their own minds about the process and the results. To me that is infinitely more informative than someone unknown (different than a known / credible / trusted source) that just posts his opinion of the results of an undocumented process.

So I hope he continues to do what he does without letting frustration get to him and painting people with a broad-brush and alienating people that would like to support him.

In my idealistic world this hobby should bring us together rather than divide us as it so often does. When I met you and others at Blade that ideal was really driven home to me - that the people are more important than the knives. The knives are just a conduit to creating those relationships.

[maxbelg]

Hi 12lku, Maxbelg,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Certainly a controversial subject in which you chose to participate.

Hope you enjoy your time here. Lot of very special members.

sal

Thanks for the welcome Sal!

I admire the way you handle these controversial subjects and the "special" members! :D

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Thank you Sal.

I have enjoyed CTS's video and found them informative.

I like that he shows the entire process from start to finish so that viewers can make up their own minds about the process and the results. To me that is infinitely more informative than someone unknown (different than a known / credible / trusted source) that just posts his opinion of the results of an undocumented process.

So I hope he continues to do what he does without letting frustration get to him and painting people with a broad-brush and alienating people that would like to support him.

In my idealistic world this hobby should bring us together rather than divide us as it so often does. When I met you and others at Blade that ideal was really driven home to me - that the people are more important than the knives. The knives are just a conduit to creating those relationships.

Oh no I will definitely continue to do the testing. I will probably refine the process a little in the near future and make it more like Jim's test. I am going to buy a piece of soft pine to cut on so that I am using a very soft surface to cut on, and also I can use a fresh section for each test. Also it will allow me to use the length of the blade, and not just the front belly portion and tip.

Should yield more valid, accurate results. :)

[l2lku]

Most excellent. Glad to hear it.

BTW - what happened to the cardboard cutting video? Are you redoing it?

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Most excellent. Glad to hear it.

BTW - what happened to the cardboard cutting video? Are you redoing it?

The Sebenza vid? I can redo it if you'd like, but without using old USPS boxes, haha!

[sal]

Hey Crimson,

You will no doubt continue to refine. "Refinement is your evolutionary obligation to humankind" :p

Jim learned much from Phil, We've gone through numerous tests before we ended up with the CATRA. We've learned from many of the custom makers that do testing (Ed Schempp, Wayne Goddard, Cliff Stamp, Phil Wilson, Gayle Bradley, Warren Osbourne, as well as forumites).

It's not a contest, it's a seminar.

sal

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Hey Crimson,

You will no doubt continue to refine. "Refinement is your evolutionary obligation to humankind" :p

Jim learned much from Phil, We've gone through numerous tests before we ended up with the CATRA. We've learned from many of the custom makers that do testing (Ed Schempp, Wayne Goddard, Cliff Stamp, Phil Wilson, Gayle Bradley, Warren Osbourne, as well as forumites).

It's not a contest, it's a seminar.

sal

Exactly. People act like I do this because I have some agenda, which is laughable at best. What in the world would I gain from it?

I have never dismissed the idea that something in my technique of testing could be causing the failure in these two particular knives. I've said that in most of my recent videos.

I will continue to do it no matter what people here, or anywhere else say - because for every person that dislikes the tests, there are many that enjoy the tests and encourage me to do them, including yourself.

After talking with you at blade I couldn't imagine that you would have a problem with what I am doing, and you've proven that. Thanks Sal. :)

I will be shipping the Native off on Monday. Looking forward to the replacement! I will have a back up Native in my pocket until it arrives. That knife is just absurdly comfortable to cut with.

[JNewell]

This thread has had a few near misses but on the whole I think the S:N ratio is unusually, maybe exceptionally, high. One takeaway, for me, is a reminder that test methods are all somewhat limited relative to my, or anyone else's, specific real world use. CATRA sounds great, until you read Cliff's explanation about what happens when there's any lateral pressure, which the CATRA machine eliminates...problem is, I can't replicate that in any real world use. Rope and cardboard are interesting and informative, but I don't spend much time cutting either - but the data is useful. Even Nozh's tests are useful data points, if only there would be less insistence that they're the only relevant test and everything else is a conspiracy.

At the end of the day we have no idea how good we have it. The performance level of good steel today would be unrecognizable 15 or 20 years ago. :spyder:

[KardinalSyn]

Exactly. People act like I do this because I have some agenda, which is laughable at best. What in the world would I gain from it?

I have never dismissed the idea that something in my technique of testing could be causing the failure in these two particular knives. I've said that in most of my recent videos.

I will continue to do it no matter what people here, or anywhere else say - because for every person that dislikes the tests, there are many that enjoy the tests and encourage me to do them, including yourself.

After talking with you at blade I couldn't imagine that you would have a problem with what I am doing, and you've proven that. Thanks Sal. :)

I will be shipping the Native off on Monday. Looking forward to the replacement! I will have a back up Native in my pocket until it arrives. That knife is just absurdly comfortable to cut with.

Didn't you do the same test with a non spyderco knife as well? How's the feedback from those users thus far and if any from that knife maker?

On my part, thank you for doing those tests. Had such a thing happened to me, I would have written it off as negligence on my part and the knife would have found a permanent place in my cupboard to stay. Nor would I have had the ability to record my findings and share with others. keep an Open mind on feedback and don't ever stop reviewing stuff.

[pdptrow]

S30V is a good blade steel that we've been using for many years now. It does take some experience to get the mfg down, but it works well.

When we tested the S35VN material and then made a mule team, the material tested pretty much as Crucible said as far as edge retention goes. Good, but it might give us a little less in abrasion resistance.

Those that played with the Mule Team pieces also felt the S35VN was very close to S30V. Since the question has come up from Crimson's test, we've been checking current inventory. Rc is running pretty consistent at 59.7 and discussion with our heat treater concurred. CATRA testing done yesterday still puts the S35VN close to S30V. A little less, but I don't think most would notice. We're going to run a few blades up to 61/62 and recheck.

sal

That will be very interesting indeed, looking forward to what you find out how much if any difference is seen than the first HT. The user testing by different people will show result varying in degrees, different methods, the human factor, so your mileage may vary. I think it's all good as this forum has proven many times. This thread is being very informative and I am enjoying this discussion. Thanks. :cool:

[Lord Bear]

First thanks to all. Really educational.
This reminds me of my IPad1 experience. I got it last Feb and I was extremely happy with it until 3weeks later the IPad2 was announced. Boy did my perception change! I even tried to return it even though I knew better. Now I'm content that my IPad1 works just fine.
When I first got my hands on the Native 5 I was so happy with it I ordered multiples! Then I saw the videos, went through the threads and considered returning the nitb Natives. (Perception again.) I decided not to since I was initially impressed not only with it's ergonomics BUT how well it performed at work! (Cardboard, plastic straps, cords, plastic, tape, etc.)
I LIKE the fact that different steels have different properties. They all have strengths AND weaknesses, and discovering them is a big part of the fun for me.
My takeaway from all this is to watch out for "perception" and give more credence to personal experience.
Again thanks to all! :)

[Nemo3000]

Since I saw the video I really use my N5 hard every day.
No flaw has been noticed. I process hard plastic everyday and use it in the kitchen also. The S35VN performed great and only light ceramic and leather strops has been performed to keep it razor sharp.

Ok here it has been tested on Normandie's cheeses...(Camembert, Livarot and Pont Lévèque !)
Enjoy ! ;-)

[Belker]

I read all 10 pages of this thread and then ..... it's like the discussion fell off a cliff into a bottomless pit.

What happened? Was the knife ever tested?

[chuck_roxas45]

I read all 10 pages of this thread and then ..... it's like the discussion fell off a cliff into a bottomless pit.

What happened? Was the knife ever tested?

Same thing happened to a Gayle Bradley test by the same guy.

[The Mastiff]

Same thing happened to a Gayle Bradley test by the same guy.

What a coincidence. It seems to happen after he sharpens the knife, then he finds better steel and the problem goes away. Last I heard he didn't send the knife in for lab work. Sal has posted the request on forum thread(s) but CTS doesn't seem to see them.

:)


Joe

[chuck_roxas45]

What a coincidence. It seems to happen after he sharpens the knife, then he finds better steel and the problem goes away. Last I heard he didn't send the knife in for lab work. Sal has posted the request on forum thread(s) but CTS doesn't seem to see them.

:)


Joe

Yep, he didn't send both knives in. He's too "busy" to do that.

[BAL]

Yep, he didn't send both knives in. He's too "busy" to do that.

PreMed Chuck, PreMed. :cool:

[chuck_roxas45]

PreMed Chuck, PreMed. :cool:

Oops! Sorry. :D