Suzie, do you enjoy a glass of wine from a paper bag?
I understand the difference between high-brow socializing and an aimless drunk. I think the goal of our laws is to keep impaired people from the public realm (where busy lives are lived out). Europe has a more mature sense of drinking than we do, in general. Even the homeless in Europe are downright charming .
If people want to drink and enter the public (which they do) it's their responsibility to equally contribute or at least not detract. If they slow down my life because of being impaired that's where the line is drawn.
Laws are constructed locally for a specific people. Looking at them contextually is key. Most Americans don't burn through 3 bottles of wine at a business lunch which is perfectly "civil" in some places. We my be the international rednecks but we live very urgent lives where lunch is 1 hr or less. We also have concealed carry gun laws yet people are shot quite infrequently by those people.
To add a third perspective on the discussion between Suzie and Blerv (Germany/USA) as a Canadian, I am often surprised by how restrictive US knife laws are (in Canada the knife laws are very relaxed) compared to what I see as very permissive US gun laws (in Canada guns are much more heavily regulated, and concealed carry permits virtually impossible). Differences are why I like to travel...although I'd like to travel carrying my 4" Millie :)
Perspectives are great. While diverse we may not represent the majority of our countries; I certainly don't :p .
Laws are made on assumptions thus often silly for rational people. Sadly they are only easily ignored if you can afford premium legal council. Sometimes certain demographics can sidestep penalties as an unfair unspoken advantage.
The mention of the knife in this story is really a side-note to the main legal issue. It's not irrelevant as his shirt color but also less of a rights issue than initially painted. It wasn't even seized, lol. :sad violin:
PS: This was typed while driving to work. Fight the power!
Reaching into someones pocket without their knowledge is a breach of privacy and I would sue without blinking. Heck I would sue for my backside being touched without my consent also.
Men who give up freedom for security deserve neither.
Armalite Native wrote:Reaching into someones pocket without their knowledge is a breach of privacy and I would sue without blinking. Heck I would sue for my backside being touched without my consent also.
Men who give up freedom for security deserve neither.
and that is why there is a waste of taxpayers monies, the court system is backed up with frivolous law suits (when real cases with real criminals need to be tried)...and who is the security for anyway...the guy drinking illegally out of a paper bag with a knife sticking out his back pocket or is it for the Police Officers who have to confront him....hmmmmm I wonder which is a more important issue here... for the public safety ......Doc :D
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"
Sequimite wrote:I'm really surprised how many of you believe that one person's/officer's opinion about what is in the "public interest" is a valid substitute for following the law.
i'm not claiming the officer or the OP is right or wrong, just putting myself in both of their shoes.
think about it like this: the officer looks over and notices a guy drinking on the train and sees a knife clipped to his pocket. the officer doesn't know him or how much alcohol he's already consumed? the officer has to assume the worst, no? the OP got his knife temporarily taken away and a was given a ticket for drinking in public.
i don't know the laws in his area, but i'm will to bet that any judge would agree with the officer's actions.
Totally with you on this one. It's just really puzzling how the same things are viewed from such totally different angles. That's why I make it a point to research the local laws of the countries I travel to be able to blend in and fly under the radar. While I might see American views on drinking (or weapons or smoking or whatever) as totally redneck and stupid it still doesn't mean I would try to violate them - for my own health and freedom :)
Still a shame I will never be able to enjoy a New Year's Eve in NYC, watching fireworks and clinking a glass of Champaign with random strangers on the street to celebrate the coming year
She: Did you say pink :spyder: sprint run?! - He: Yeah. - She: Wow, wouldn't this go great with my purple Delica?! - He: ? - :D
:spyder: Delica 4 FFG purple ::: Dragonfly Salt Yellow SE ::: Ladybug Foliage Green PE ::: UK Penknife Safety Orange G-10 ::: Byrd Robin G-10 PE ::: Delica 4 FFG pink - modded to non-locking ::: Squeak ::: Grasshopper ::: Kiwi - got snagged by the husband ::: Endura 4 FFG Orange ::: Delica ZDP-189 ::: Centofante 4 ::: Byrd Tern ::: Manix 2 Blue Lightweight :spyder:
Suzie, I agree with you. Laws are meant to be followed even if they don't make any sense. I can't carry a throwing/ninja star ever but can open carry a handgun; many places will allow for up to a 4" Fixed Blade but a 2" double-edged or Stilleto will land you in huge trouble because it's considered a deadly weapon, dirk, auto knife, etc. There are no laws with carrying screwdrivers, pens, or other sharp instruments. :confused:
The one thing I will disagree with is that there really isn't such thing as an "American view" just as there is no "German View" or "Canadian View". Stereotypes exist but rarely for any good; people are far more complex than a multiple choice test.
Blerv wrote:The one thing I will disagree with is that there really isn't such thing as an "American view" just as there is no "German View" or "Canadian View". Stereotypes exist but rarely for any good; people are far more complex than a multiple choice test.
Didn't want to stereotype anyone or anything, sorry. I just think that local customs and local laws in a way usually reflect the majority opinion and for lack of another term I would generalize this majority opinion as American, Canadian, German, French or whatever. Doesn't say anything about individual opinions of course. But it does help to take this majority opinion into account when dealing with a country and culture you don't know. As a responsible 20 year old on my first trip to the States I was pretty miffed that they wouldn't let me have a glass of wine with my steak or refused to let me into a Casino. But 90% of the Americans I met seemed to be 100% behind this and looked at me like a was a boozing, gambling nitwit when I told them about my feelings in this matter. So I went with the flow, kept my mouth shut and enjoyed being back home all the more
She: Did you say pink :spyder: sprint run?! - He: Yeah. - She: Wow, wouldn't this go great with my purple Delica?! - He: ? - :D
:spyder: Delica 4 FFG purple ::: Dragonfly Salt Yellow SE ::: Ladybug Foliage Green PE ::: UK Penknife Safety Orange G-10 ::: Byrd Robin G-10 PE ::: Delica 4 FFG pink - modded to non-locking ::: Squeak ::: Grasshopper ::: Kiwi - got snagged by the husband ::: Endura 4 FFG Orange ::: Delica ZDP-189 ::: Centofante 4 ::: Byrd Tern ::: Manix 2 Blue Lightweight :spyder:
No offense taken. I'm just making sure I'm not speaking for a country as I'm hardly qualified .
Laws will be laws, you gotta set them someplace. The legal drinking/gambling age is a federal thing and plenty of people disagree (mostly minors). I'm sure there are plenty opposed to international laws when traveling but as they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do."
This is simply my opinion, please take it as such as (1) I do not know Canadian law and even in the U.S. knife laws vary from States and cities, and (2) I did not read all of the responses, so this answer may have been given already.
Police officers will routinely search persons who are engaging in illegal activity, especially if they see a weapon present. You admitted that the drinking in public was illegal. It is my belief that he originally targeted your group because the alcohol, noticed the knife, and removed it from the situation before it became a factor in comfronting the group.
Then after writing you a citation for drinking on the public transportation, he kept the knife without ticketing you for it, for several possible reasons. First, though all of you were polite, it still is a weapon and there was possibly a liabilty for him had he given it back to you (traceble by the ticket he gave you for the alcohol) and if someone had later been injured, he may have been called to task for it. This is not to say that your judgement was impaired to the point that he felt you would do that, but it was in question to the point that you and your friends were drinking where you were not supposed to, so he chose prudence over graciousness. The second reason may be some arcane Canadian law dealing with carrying knives while drinking (I don't know) and he cut you slack on it due to your politeness.
I however think the first reason is the primary reason he took the knife, and I am glad you are getting it back without much hassle other than the travel.
.
