Do i have a heat treat issue?

Evil D · #1

I don't know what it is, but i just can't seem to get my new Para 2 sharp enough. My typical method of sharpness testing is if i can push cut receipt paper, i'm satisfied. This knife, no matter what i do will not push cut without ripping the paper and it barely shaves hair. My other Para 2 never had this issue...it would get crazy sharp. My Cento 4 i've been carrying, i can get that knife sharper than just about any knife i've ever owned. I have a lot of experience with S30V and something just feels unusual about how this knife is taking (or not taking) an edge. I'm doing the same old sharpening routine as i've always done so the only variable is the knife.

dbcad · #2

I feel you are very capable at sharpening David. There might well be an issue with HT. Have you been able to look at the edge under magnification? Is this S30V?

Evil D · #3

No i still haven't got around to buying a loupe yet but my vision is pretty good. Also i'm certain there's no burr left so that's not the issue. It is S30V, just as my previous Para 2 was.

I thought maybe there was a chance the DLC is causing more friction than i'm used to, but that wouldn't explain why it doesn't shave very well.

chuck_roxas45 · #4

Evil D wrote:No i still haven't got around to buying a loupe yet but my vision is pretty good. Also i'm certain there's no burr left so that's not the issue. It is S30V, just as my previous Para 2 was.

I thought maybe there was a chance the DLC is causing more friction than i'm used to, but that wouldn't explain why it doesn't shave very well.

What happens to the edge after you knock the burr off? Does the edge roll? Or does it develop flat spots?

BTW, you can use a bright flashlight to check the edge. It will usually show flattened spots or rolling.

dbcad · #5

Dlc??

Art_vandeley · #6

dbcad wrote:Dlc??

Diamond like coating. Black blade, black G10 Para2.

dbcad · #7

Thanks Art :) The coating might throw another variable into it IMO.

#8

Evil D wrote:No i still haven't got around to buying a loupe yet but my vision is pretty good. .

Loupe is #1 teacher. Sal is #2 teacher.

Could be a bad angle? Could be heat treat affected by coating? A loupe will give you more info 8X - 20X. Otherwise, you can send it in to us. The first thing we'll do is look at it with a loupe.

sal

angusW · #9

Out of my three Para 2's, the dlc one gave me a problem sharpening as well. Lately I've been using an angle guide with either wet paper or diamond stones. Set at 15º it wasn't hitting the bevel of the dlc Para 2. I ended up re-profiling it to 15 inclusive. It was in my pocket at work this week, used it a couple times and it's still sharp. Shining a light on the edge like Chuck recommends helps out as well. Also like the man said. Get a loupe. I use a 15 power that has a light from Lee Valley. It does help.

DCDesigns · #10

angusW wrote:Set at 15º it wasn't hitting the bevel of the dlc Para 2. I ended up re-profiling it to 15 inclusive.

Do you mean 30 degree inclusive? Going from 15 per side to 15 inclusive basically means you halved the angle, and are now doing it at 7.5 degrees per side. Is that what you meant? If so, how does she slice

dbcad · #11

The 15X loupe from Lee valley is quite helpful. :spyder: has been getting S30V HT'd for quite a while and it seems improbable that is the cause. However, there is no compelling evidence to name any cause right now.

I always look for "operator difficulty" in myself when something refuses to get sharp

I have been right 100% of the time in that.

I know you're a pretty good sharpener David. We'll figure out what's going on :)

wingman_214 · #12

I have issues sharpening my dlc para2 as well. I find it much easier to sharpen my zdp-189 dragonfly 2. I think its just blade length. The shorter blade is easier to control so its easier to stay consistent.

Evil D · #13

Well to be honest i haven't really used it enough to see if the edge rolls, but after a 1000 grit stone the burr is gone. Don't get me wrong, it's sharp, but not the level of sharpness i regularly get. I've never experienced a heat treat issue so i don't know what to expect, so i figured i'd ask. It was crazy sharp out of the box so heat treat is probably not the issue, it's something i'm doing, i just can't imagine what.

chuck_roxas45 · #14

Evil D wrote:Well to be honest i haven't really used it enough to see if the edge rolls, but after a 1000 grit stone the burr is gone. Don't get me wrong, it's sharp, but not the level of sharpness i regularly get. I've never experienced a heat treat issue so i don't know what to expect, so i figured i'd ask. It was crazy sharp out of the box so heat treat is probably not the issue, it's something i'm doing, i just can't imagine what.

If you're getting a burr then you are obviously hitting the edge. The question now seems to me, is what happens when you get rid of the burr? I'm not an expert by far but it seems to me a heat treat issue will often result in softer steel. Softer steel will still probably take an edge but will lose it fast.

Since you don't have a loupe, I'd say try to make do with a flashlight first. Look at the edge before taking off the burr and after. You maybe inadvertently rounding or flattening the edge when you take off the burr.

Ankerson · #15

Evil D wrote:Well to be honest i haven't really used it enough to see if the edge rolls, but after a 1000 grit stone the burr is gone. Don't get me wrong, it's sharp, but not the level of sharpness i regularly get. I've never experienced a heat treat issue so i don't know what to expect, so i figured i'd ask. It was crazy sharp out of the box so heat treat is probably not the issue, it's something i'm doing, i just can't imagine what.

I think you may want to strop it a few times to make sure the bur is gone. :)

That or hit it with a ceramic.

angusW · #16

DCDesigns wrote:Do you mean 30 degree inclusive? Going from 15 per side to 15 inclusive basically means you halved the angle, and are now doing it at 7.5 degrees per side. Is that what you meant? If so, how does she slice

Yup. 30 :D

Fred Sanford · #17

I bought a 30x loupe and a 10x and 20x combo loupe. I have never sharpened better. I look at all of my edges before and after. Some knives I no longer need to look at as I have the "feel" down by now. Any knife I had problems sharpening was helped with the loupe. I got mine off of Amazon for like $20 give or take.

seanv · #18

I've never seen an issue with a heat treat myself, so I wouldn't know what to look for.

I have a coated S30V Native 4, and haven't had any issue, but my blade's serrated, so the grind is obviously a bit different. For my part, I guess my only questions would be how much love are you giving it to knock off the burr, and what's you strop technique like? (Not meant as an insult of your technique; merely curious about strokes/pattern/material used, etc).

I would definitely recommend some form of magnification and a light source; I don't have a loupe myself, but instead my grandmother's old, gigantic magnifying glass she used to use for reading- a bit heavy, but works just as well, and with a bigger field of view. I usually hit my blades with my old Surefire, plus that magnify glass, and it's crazy the kind of detail and imperfections you can make out (and in my case, quite frequently the damage I've done trying to "sharpen" an edge).

chuck_roxas45 · #19

Bumping this thread because I'm curious at how the OP is dealing with the knife.

dbcad · #20

Curious myself. David's a sharp guy. I feel confident this will be figured out one way or another :)