full liner gayle bradley high ht?

Popsickle · #1

How many gayle bradleys were made with the higher heat treat blade? Did full liners mean higher ht or was it a small batch? Ifso how many?

JNewell · #2

Having been one of the first purchasers of the GB (between my older son and I, we have three of the earliest non-GB-marked knives) and followed the topic here, my recollection is that Spyderco (Sal, Eric, Kristi) have never specifically indicated when the Rc range was lowered back to the original spec. You could try searching here and at BF (not trying to tweak you, it's just that I don't read every post and I don't remember everything that I do read :o ), but I think that's what you'll find.

Popsickle · #3

I'm at work...kinda why I posted this. I normally use my google fu to find answers

JNewell · #4

Believe it or not :D I wasn't trying to tweak you with the usual "use search" riposte. :)

I have had a couple of impressions as this went along, but I'm not sure that either was/is right. The first impression was that Spyderco might leave the Rc levels high, based on at least one post from Sal, but it appears that the Rc level was reduced to original specs. The second impression is that the change happened before the second production run. That wouldn't necessarily seem logical, though, so at the end of the day, as far as I recall at this point, there's just a question mark...

jackknifeh · #5

What is Spyderco's Rc rating on M4? There are times I've heard a steel has an Rc rating but Spyderco's is different, usually higher. H1 is an example. I looked it up on inet and got 57-58. I believe Spyderco's rating is as high as 65 according to the same aritcle. I have a list of my knives which includes steel type and Rc hardness. My list for M4 has 63-66 Rc. I got that from somewhere but don't remember where.

Anyway, what is the original Rc of M4?

What is Spyderco's? What did they have it up to? Why change?

From using two knives with M4 I like it. Good edge retention, no chipping so far. Edge retention is the most important thing to me followed by ease of sharpening. They don't always go together though but M4 is very easy to sharpen unless you are re-profiling. Then it takes time but all good steels do.

Jack

jackknifeh · #6

I just found CPM-M4 rated at 59-61 Rc on A.G. Russell's steel chart. Wherever I got the 63-66 may have been the higher levels talked about?

I wish Spyderco would put the Rc hardness on their steel chart. Especially if their knives will have a different rating than other companies.

Jack

DallasSTB · #7

Wait, what?

I apologize for only being a part-time Spyderco guy, but I've completely missed this thing about them lowering the hardness HT for the GB M4 blade. When it first came out, Sal commented that their internal tests had the blade steel at around 65RC. Now what is it?

DeathBySnooSnoo · #8

I can't remember where...so I might be talking out my a$$ but I seem to recall that the original run was about 65 and then was lowered to about 63.

I would generally assume that the entire first run would have been at the higher RC and then after that was dropped down. How many that is...no idea. But I would think that from a production standpoint, that if you have solid liners you probably have the higher hardness. But again...could be totally wrong.

lambertiana · #9

When the original run came out, Sal said that Gayle Bradley had tested his at close to 65, and others were the same. I don't know if it was lowered for later runs.

Mine is from the first run, and it is good stuff. One time I was at a wedding reception and someone handed me the bride's boquet to cut the stems shorter. It was taking a lot of force, and then I discovered why - every rose stem was wrapped with green florist's wire. There was only a very slight amount of edge damage, I was impressed.

MCM · #10

Having a full liner, no logo early model I recall it being listed RC 64-65.
Is that right?
I also recall the Texas logo being added, then drilled liners after that.
But don't recall a lower HT #?

Any info would be great!

jossta · #11

Are the any with logo, full liners, high heat treat?

DeathBySnooSnoo · #12

Until we get some kind of confirmation, I think that the best guess is that the first approx 200 had full liners, a high heat treat and no logo. And after that...any GB with full liners PROBABLY has the higher heat treat.
I say that because I would imagine that they would have done all the blades for the batch in one go because they would have been done in the US and shipped to Taiwan for assembly.

The Mastiff · #13

Until we have confirmation from Sal or Eric we can only speculate. I had thought the reduced hardness thing started with a poster including his own RC tests and not anything Spyderco officially ever established. That, and a thread about performance not living up to someones expectations that took on a life of it's own.

63-64 isn't too high for a folder IMO, and would question if they would really lower it, or were just trying to just tighten up specs, deliver better corrosion figures, or just about a hundred other things it could result from. Only Spyderco really knows.

Joe

The Deacon · #14

I'm with Joe on this. Aside from a post by one forumite (gunmike1) who said he'd "heard some (of the Bradley Folders) were close to 65 RC from the factory" and was considering having his re-heat to that hardness by Phil Wilson and some equally unsubstantiated speculation about them being 62.5 RC "like the M-4 mule", there's nothing on this forum to suggest the RC on the Bradley Folder was ever was changed by Spyderco.

jezabel · #15

The answers are floating about here amongst the old posts somewhere...

IIRC shortly after the GB was released Gayle himself posted that his sample tested at RC 64. Another forum member (maybe was gunmike1) a few months later RC tested (possibly 2) GB's that were only slightly lower RC.

J

The Deacon · #16

jezabel wrote:The answers are floating about here amongst the old posts somewhere...

IIRC shortly after the GB was released Gayle himself posted that his sample tested at RC 64. Another forum member (maybe was gunmike1) a few months later RC tested (possibly 2) GB's that were only slightly lower RC.

J

If Gayle Bradley said that, it was somewhere other than this forum. He's made exactly 4 posts here under the username GGB0303, none of which mention RC numbers.

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.p ... post547312

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.p ... post551669

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.p ... post573579

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.p ... post617786

Blerv · #17

I hate coming off as a devout follower but in general even if they did lower the HT wouldnt it be done for a wise decision? It's a snobby knife for knife snobs so the change would likely do something else (like increase toughness).

For me M4's boon is toughness and bein able to take a nice edge. Even if it had wear resistance of production treated 154cm it has its perk. Seems most find it around the s30v range or slightly better. Ankerson says it lacks the carbides to keep up with steels like s90v. I would be fine with any proper HT personally and touching up an edge isnt a big deal compared to fixing a chip.

jackknifeh · #18

Blerv wrote:I hate coming off as a devout follower but in general even if they did lower the HT wouldnt it be done for a wise decision? It's a snobby knife for knife snobs so the change would likely do something else (like increase toughness).

For me M4's boon is toughness and bein able to take a nice edge. Even if it had wear resistance of production treated 154cm it has its perk. Seems most find it around the s30v range or slightly better. Ankerson says it lacks the carbides to keep up with steels like s90v. I would be fine with any proper HT personally and touching up an edge isnt a big deal compared to fixing a chip.

I was thinking the same thing. I don't have any S90V but do have ZDP-189. ZDP is a great steel if you sharpen it knowing it is prone to chipping. M4 that I have (GB and Manix2) hasn't chipped at all. I have the GB sharpened at 30 deg. inclusive. No chipping and it holds an edge great. ZDP would chip at 30 deg. inclusive in my experience. The chips would be very tiny and wouldn't hinder cutting performance at all. It's just knowing how the steel "acts" and I think M4 "acts" better than ZDP IMO. Better way to say it is I prefer M4. Others may prefer ZDP.

Jack

The Mastiff · #19

It's true the Killer V steels pretty much pull ahead of everything in absolute abrasion resistance. CPM M4 has to be run at near RC 65 to get fairly close to S90V which isn't even at max hardness.

That being said I like CPM M4 better than S90V. To be honest I like the Super blue better as well.

And plain Vanilla ice cream does it for me. :)

Joe

edit: I do like full hardness Phil Wilson custom S110V pretty well though. It amazes me, yet sharpens fairly easily ( rc 63.5-64)

DallasSTB · #20

So has anyone independently tested a GB blade's hardness recently? Mine's a recent issue with the Texas logo and skeletonized liners. So far I've found it takes a very nice edge but I haven't really "tested" it much yet.