wvguy8258 wrote: Hopefully the future will be one in which a lawyer would have a disincentive to spin tales because he knows the jury will see it for what it is and he will lose all credibility.
+1.
I would like to see the system throw out any lawyer who is spinning tales to the uneducated peers. Course I suspect that said lawyer would say, "it's just our job". Sounds just like, we were just following orders. Lives are lost based on these excuses.
jtoler_9 wrote:+1.
I would like to see the system throw out any lawyer who is spinning tales to the uneducated peers. Course I suspect that said lawyer would say, "it's just our job". Sounds just like, we were just following orders. Lives are lost based on these excuses.
I sincerely hope that you are not comparing misinformation about knives with the legal defense made by Nazi soldiers at their trials in Nuremberg -- such a comparison is grossly disproportionate.
There likewise seems to be a real disconnect between how American law works and how little American citizens seem to understand their own laws' nuances. We have the same problem in Canada, where people seem really unsure of how their own legal system works. In neither system can a lawyer in court knowingly lie to a judge or jury. In criminal law cases, a defense lawyer will attempt to cast evidence in a light that raises a reasonable doubt as to his or her client's actions (the actus reus) or intent (mens rea). A prosecutor, even in an adversarial system, is not attempting to win. The phrase prosecutors use in Canada, for example, is "we are not here to win or lose, but to see justice done." If the evidence does not lead to a conviction by way of reasonable doubt, that is what the evidence IS. Both US and Canadian law prefer to release a criminal than convict an innocent.
As an outsider to American culture, what I can't understand is the desire to regulate knives but the desire to (it seems to me in my admitted ignorance) completely de-regulate guns in the USA.
For those of you who have commented on how depressing it is that critical thinking seems to have gone out the window, I can assure you we have the same problem in Canada. Our current government wants to build more prisons despite a falling crime rate, because they don't believe statistics. Their argument is that crime is increasing but not being reported. Our justice minister actually argued that the new prisons would be for people we caught committing unreported crimes. The logic of how you catch and convict someone doing something unreported seemed to escape both the politician and the newspaper. And the public. Maybe both our countries should just pump a lot of money into education and hope the next generation can think clearly!
Maybe the corporations that build prisons in Canada should be investigated to see if they're subverting the Canadian political process. That happens in the U.S. in a major way. My state spends billions building prisons. Imagine what kind of political clout those builders have, given the size of those contracts. What we have here is pure, unabashed corruption at every level of government. If Canada is different, you should stop it now, otherwise you will become the same as us -- a broken system.
DCDesigns wrote:Havent been watching the news much lately, have you!?
Nope. Cancelled my cable almost almost four years ago and I don't tend to read the latest fluff like this murder trial. I realize it isn't fluff for the people involved but I'm not one of them and when it comes down to it something like this doesn't involve or affect most people. It's just entertainment for them. I did read a brief outline on Wikipedia regarding this trial and have the basic grasp of it but it's still fluff and won't waste anymore time with it.
As far as the article goes, the small amount I read shows the person who wrote the parts that I read is not very logical. It's like saying all cars are bad because a couple of piston heads decided to race their cars, crashed them which killed someone. Obviously it's not the cars fault. It's the person who is driving the car and not everyone driving a car is racing them.
I freely admit, I gave into my basest impulses, and read the "knives" portion of the article; I don't think I've ever read so many ignorant assertions in my life! There were so many straw man arguments in there, I'd have been afraid to smoke a cigarette near my laptop for fear of it catching fire! But then, people are afraid of anything pointy, so I'm particularly not surprised.
You guys think that that article is nuts? Listen to this: I live in Southeast Michigian, and most of the cops around here I've talked to state- categorically- that if they catch you with a knife, you must be doing something illegal. What kind of thinking is that?! Of course this is also the state that recently decided it's going to legalize suppressors for civilian ownership- go figure. Speaking of which, I need to get that BATFE paperwork started in anticipation....
"You have a knife or any other weapons in the car?"
"No knives officer; just a scoped and laser-sighted, suppressed AR-15 on a Chalker Sling. It's in my trunk."
"Very well, have a good night. Drive safely."
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Persistence PE
Rhiney wrote:In criminal law cases, a defense lawyer will attempt to cast evidence in a light that raises a reasonable doubt as to his or her client's actions (the actus reus) or intent (mens rea).
Am I correct to paraphrase this as "lying is not the same thing as being totally and purposefully full of crap"?
Rhiney wrote:I sincerely hope that you are not comparing misinformation about knives with the legal defense made by Nazi soldiers at their trials in Nuremberg -- such a comparison is grossly disproportionate.
I would like to know why you think that comparison is grossly disproportionate?
It's not the misinformation about knives, it's the lack of reality that exists in some of these arguments and accusations. At what point does it go to far then? How much "misinformation" or BS as I like to call it is too much?
Knowing full well that if I can "misinform" better than you, chances are good i'll win my argument. Thus ending your freedom if it's a criminal case.
The only safe defense today seems to be avoiding making someone with more money than you angry.
jtoler_9 wrote:I would like to know why you think that comparison is grossly disproportionate?
Because comparing almost anything to the Nazi regime is at the least hyperbolic and at the most ignorant.
I'm as much of an advocate for allowing law abiding citizens proper carry rights as the next person. I don't think there is a slippery slope between pocket knives and a genocidal movement.
Frankly Spyderco should be careful with product descriptions. People should be careful with what they put on their blogs (like Amanda Knox). Everyone should be **** careful about how they represent their collective groups. That includes the tattooed chumps in the Youtube vids showing wave draws. Last time I checked those clowns aren't exactly Mr. Janich.
Stereotypes are formed FAR easier than they are trumped.
Blerv wrote:I don't think there is a slippery slope between pocket knives and a genocidal movement.
You lost me there. I certainly didn't attempt to compare pocket knives to genocide. My apologies to everyone if that was the impression given. I was trying to compare the excuses made for those actions compared to making outlandish claims/remarks in court even when one knows they are unfounded and baseless. Both are excuses and they are wrong in my opinion. I do see similarity when both actions described end lives. I do appreciate you responding with a reason "why" you disagree with me rather than simply saying, my point of view sucks. :) This is how I learn, by discussion.
jtoler_9 wrote:I thought that all tactical folders were purchased by nutnfancy. :)
I don't know how many times I've heard that guy say "protect myself and my loved ones," or "tactical" or something like that. I may be delusional, but he might have also said "neutralize the immediate threat" and "dominate the situation" in those videos.
These guys make me and my .577 Nitro Express look bad :D
1. There is a time and place for everything.
2. Not everybody shares your views.
3. Common sense and basic courtesy gets one far.
4. Know your local laws.
5. "Sheeple" is a bigot's term.
jtoler_9 wrote:You lost me there. I certainly didn't attempt to compare pocket knives to genocide. My apologies to everyone if that was the impression given. I was trying to compare the excuses made for those actions compared to making outlandish claims/remarks in court even when one knows they are unfounded and baseless. Both are excuses and they are wrong in my opinion. I do see similarity when both actions described end lives. I do appreciate you responding with a reason "why" you disagree with me rather than simply saying, my point of view sucks. :) This is how I learn, by discussion.
Let me back up. :)
Now I'm sure that I took that out of context and went off on a tangent. After re-reading it all I obviously missed the boat. I am sorry too. :o
The media likes to spin and people who have been guilted like to scream. If you can't find a psycho to report on it's probably because someone isn't looking hard enough these days.
More people are killed at sporting event riots than with pocket knives. People don't outlaw sports. Even the Vancouver riot made us think twice about team patriotism and the mentality of a mob.
I still hold the fact that if the psycho wanted Meredith dead it didn't matter if it was an Spyderco Delica Wave or a shoelace. It was likely going to happen.
Psychopaths are pretty good at doing evil things to people half their size and strength. Maybe if she had a knife things would be different. Tools tend to equal the playing ground.
This bears repeating, so may I quote the wise man above who said:
"Frankly Spyderco should be careful with product descriptions. People should be careful with what they put on their blogs (like Amanda Knox). Everyone should be **** careful about how they represent their collective groups. That includes the tattooed chumps in the Youtube vids showing wave draws."
I think this an excellent distillation of what we knife-owners should learn from the Amanda Knox affair. I would only add the obvious, that we must collectively give the haters as little cause to impugn us as is possible. With the freedom to carry a knife comes a considerable amount of responsibility to be wise. Our continued freedoms--and Sal's business--depends on it.
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