blade steels. here there & everywhere.

[coonan]

After reading here there and every where regarding s30v vs. s90v I have found that s30v is great and s90v is hard to sharpen and s30v is no good and you can not beat s90v.How much harder is to sharpen s90v.Am having a hard time making up my mind
I am not going to _ _ _ _ My 440v millie now.Going to get a PE millie & PE para. I am finding out I have a lot to learn about sharpening but do not want that to dictate which type of steel you all come up with.Is 20 degrees per side a good compromise ? Thanks. Bought a spyderco v sharpener.

[JD Spydo]

After reading here there and every where regarding s30v vs. s90v I have found that s30v is great and s90v is hard to sharpen and s30v is no good and you can not beat s90v.How much harder is to sharpen s90v.Am having a hard time making up my mind
I am not going to _ _ _ _ My 440v millie now.Going to get a PE millie & PE para. I am finding out I have a lot to learn about sharpening but do not want that to dictate which type of steel you all come up with.Is 20 degrees per side a good compromise ? Thanks. Bought a spyderco v sharpener.

Actually I find 440V to be one of the hardest steels to sharpen I ever had. However I like the steel and I use my old Golden CO USA Earth Nativen with 440V and I love the way it performs.

To me I don't care how hard it is to sharpen a blade because I love the challenge of sharpening. I also find a well heat treated D-2 a monster to sharpen as well. It seems like any blade steel with a significant amount of vanadium or cobalt is usually a real job to sharpen.

I personally am not a big fan of S30V even though I like most other Crucible steels. A friend of mine has a fixed blade with S3V and he says it's truly the worst steel to sharpen he ever tried. But believe me I don't think there is a steel out there much worse than 440V. The first time I ever sharpened a blade with 440V I said a lot of words you wouldn't want to repeat in public :o :D

[Blerv]

The sharpening of exotic blade steels should be the last thing considered. Spyderco will sharpen your knife for return postage.

The main factors for considering such a knife is budget and what your intentions are for it. If left to the factory edge a S90v knife will cut far longer than a S30v blade of the same design. Still, for the average person all they are gaining is time between sharpenings.

For people who run thin angles or have snobby needs steels like S30v aren't in the running anymore. Same reason why people who like 911's don't typically drive a Mustang or even the people driving STi's don't consider the standard WRX in the same league.

As mentioned for most people who occasionally open boxes, bags, and similar tasks, steel is the last of their worries. Price and availability will be the main concern. Spyderco doesn't offer subpar offerings and even the Byrd steel (8Cr13Mov) is better than some competitors premium line.

[WalzAaronFFG]

I am still really new to sharpening so maybe my opinion doesn't count for dick, but I have found my 154CM Manix2 the hardest to sharpen. Maybe it is just because it came out of box kind of dull, but I can't get an edge to cleanly cut paper. At first I thought it was the thick hollow ground blade causing the problem, but I have spent hours and hundreds of strokes on the medium grit stones with little improvement.

I even went to 40 degree back bevel setting to try and thin out the bevel, but no such luck. I have come to the conclusion that 154CM is hard to sharpen because of all this work with no reward, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that I just suck at reprofiling an edge. I am just going to but the diamond stones and not stop till the thing is a razor blade.

So far I have found my VG10 knives the easiest to sharpen by a long shot. I love high performance steels, but there is something about a knife that resharpens easy that makes me smile.

[.357 mag]

I agree with WalzAaron. 154 sucks to sharpen. I don't own a spyderco 154cm but the leatherman 154 is hard to sharpen and dulls easy.

For Spyderco's, the steels is have is:
ZDP-189 PE
VG-10 PE,SE
H1 PE
ATS-55 PE,SE

I find them all easy to sharpen on my EdgePro with ZDP being the hardest, followed by ATS,VG-10, and last H1.

The thing I find is not to let it get dull and keep the edge on it. If I use a knife, any time during the day, I put a quick strop on it and its ready for the next day. Even when I'm skinning a deer, my Buck 420HC doesn't get dull because I stop and hit the edge with a ceramic.

[dbcad]

I am still really new to sharpening so maybe my opinion doesn't count for dick, but I have found my 154CM Manix2 the hardest to sharpen. Maybe it is just because it came out of box kind of dull, but I can't get an edge to cleanly cut paper. At first I thought it was the thick hollow ground blade causing the problem, but I have spent hours and hundreds of strokes on the medium grit stones with little improvement.

As a sharpening challenged individual myself I can offer a few friendly suggestions. I have to assume you're using the SM.

First, I would mark the edge, the sharpie trick. Used that with the M390 Mule this past weekend. There's a 2 reply thread on it :o

Second, to really see what you're doing, some magnification would be helpful. A 10x or 15x loupe is a huge help.

Third, know what you are doing to the edge. Going from 30 deg to 40 deg makes for a more obtuse angle. One of the advantages of hollow grind is that it makes the edge angle thinner at a more acute edge angle. Be able to picture in your mind what you are doing to the edge as you're doing it. First and Second help with that.

Fourth, no sharpening device is a cure all for everything. No matter what device is used, knowledge of the material being sharpened is desirable as well as knowledge of the limitations of whatever device that is being used, whether it be a Bench stone, Edge Pro system, or SM. knowledge is always the true equalizer :D Paying attention pays dividends.

154CM seems to me to be pretty easy to sharpen for me, kind of like vg-10. The M2 has a nice razor sharp edge with a nice thinness at the edge :D You can get there too :)

It ain't rocket science, it's about making 2 opposite bevels meet at an edge with some degree of precision :D

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Yeah I am a total newb to sharpening and I find that 154CM is pretty easy...my manix 2 is probably the sharpest knife I own (well not quite my GB is sharper...so is my 20CP Para2...but other than those 2).

[gull wing]

I got a Lil'Temp in 440V(S60V) long ago and could never reach a level of sharpness I wanted. However, if I were in a place like "Falling Skies" it would be a great knife to have. :)
Most of Syoderco's stuff is ok to sharpen(VG10 ZDP189, SA30V, 154CM, H1)

[chuck_roxas45]

S30V is actually one of my favorite steels. It's not that hard to sharpen and hold and edge well enough for most purposes. I can get my S30V blades easily scary sharp and though it loses that fine edge fast, it does hold that working edge for a long time and keeps on cutting.

I find that it a good all around steel with not many shortcomings.

[dbcad]

I'm a newb too Snoo Snoo, but back to the point of the OP there are a lot of different materials out there. All are good, but all have their individual tradeoffs for their advantages.

Vg-10 seems terriffic all around, keeps an edge well, easy to sharpen, takes a nice fine edge.

S30V seems to lose that superfine edge edge more quickly but stays "working sharp" for a good while and is a little more time consuming to sharpen than vg-10. It's still a very good material.

S90v and up I have no experience with, but I've read they can be very challenging to sharpen, but keep an edge for a very long time. I think they have a ton of Vanadium in them which makes them hard to sharpen.

ZDP189 which I have played with has 3% carbon and 20% chromium, other alloying elements also I'm sure. It just behaves differently as would a vg-10 or S30V blade. Very light pressure, and forget about the clock :) Once it's there It'll keep a very sharp edge for a long time.

Haven't really tested the edge holding on M390 yet, but it seems pretty friendly to sharpen :)

I think I'm in the act of hijacking a thread so I'll leave now. The more you know (even though I'm relatively clueless) the better off you are when dealing with "sharp pointy things" :)

[Cheygriz]

I now have 3 knives of S90V and 4 of CPM M-4. Since becoming available, these two have become my favorites by a large margin, with a small edge going to S90V. :)

Now, if I could just get a Millie in S125V................ :p

[SQSAR]

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of S30V, but I can definitely see its virtues. I just don't like how quickly it gives up that ultra sharp edge, even though it does keep a good working edge for a while. Sometimes it seems as though it looses that razor sharp edge just by cutting thin air.

That said, I've never had much trouble getting it sharp, and maintaining it once it has lost that ultra sharpness is never a problem. But for me, I'd take 154CM over S30V any day, even though S30V is generally considered superior.

[jackknifeh]

The steels I am used to are 8Cr13MoV, VG-10, 154CM, ZDP-189 and M4 as far as sharpening. I can't really tell which will hold an edge the longest because none of them ever get really dull. I just don't have cutting needs that last all day. I can tell that 8Cr... gets dull faster than the rest but the better steels all stay sharp long enough for my cutting needs.

I can get all of them razor sharp with no problem at all... now. My first steel I really had a problem with was ZDP-189. It took me a long time to realize how hard that steel is. When I got my first ZDP knife I thought I would be able to get really low edge angles and a razor edge. I'm sure you can but it would take forever. Very low angles 10-12 deg. per side result in wide bevels and the wider the bevel the longer it takes to remove steel. So, with ZDP I take the time to get as low an angle as I want on a knife then use a 20 deg. per side (40 on the Sharpmaker) for the actual edge. This way I can get it sharp pretty quick and the edge is stronger. ZDP at really low angles will tend to get little chips in the edge. It doesn't really hurt performance but it's annoying to me. M4 takes a long time to get low angles also but not as bad as ZDP. I haven't had any chipping issues with it. Getting each steel sharp is the same process, just different amounts of time it seems to me. They all are quality steels as I see it. Far better than what I used most of my life.

I believe sharpening a knife is a simple process but definately takes practice. If you are having problems with a given steel getting sharp, I'd suggest taking a break to reduce frustration. Also while you are practicing you are removing steel from your blade. I shortened a ZDP blade by 3/16" learning to sharpen it. I kept trying without stopping long enough to get advice and find out why I was having a problem. My problem was more of a lack of knowledge than skill. But my skill wasn't and still isn't the best in the world but It's getting better.

I have two Manix2s and neither were very sharp out of the box. The 154CM blade I got very sharp in about 15 minutes. The M4 steel took a little longer but I got there.

Don't anyone give up but please don't grind away at your knives until you are sharpening the bottom of the spine. :) The hollow grind blade on the Manix2 gets thick quick if you grind away at the edge long enough so take a break and get advice. I learned so much from some of the people on this forum it's really amazing. I also read basic sharpening stuff on the inet but this forum gives you the opportunity to ask specific questions.

I didn't mean to type so much.

Jack
PS Edit: I think advice should come from someone using the same sharpener you are using. Most of the theory is the same but the technique of different sharpeners is important (I think).

[unit]

What is the question? I find the OP difficult to understand.

"difficult to sharpen" can mean a lot of different things to different people. Some steels really resist abrasive action and take time, other times I feel that the person lacks experience with sharpening and deems a steel "hard to sharpen" because they are not getting the results they desire.

The answers to "what should I get?" and "what angle should I use?" can be complex and the answer to the second question may be highly dependent on the answer to the first question...and the correct answer to each is highly dependent on the user's needs/wants.

S30V is popular and prevalent for a reason. A 30 degree back bevel with a 40 degree micro bevel is also prevalent for a reason. As you fine tune your tastes and abilities you may find you hate BOTH. Only you can tell.

And here is the kicker! Your tastes may change over time

[yablanowitz]

Personally, I never found 440V/S60V much of a challenge to sharpen, but I switched to diamond hones about 30 years ago, after I'd been sharpening freehand for 15 years. Vanadium carbides are hard, but the diamonds don't care.

[Joshua J.]

If you start your sharpening process with a big rough grit stone steel type is almost irrelevant (2x8" utility stones are about $10 at the hardware store). I suppose this brings up the subject of freehand sharpening, but if you have the sharpmaker you can thin out the blade with the utility stone and then form the actual edge with the rods.

Remember to use minimal pressure when sharpening with diamonds, too much and you will just tear the diamonds out.

[Blerv]

It's rare you get to pick your ideal steel in your ideal knife. As The Deacon has said before, I pick the knife I want and then go with the secondary option later.

I'm not a huge S30v fan but think it's a quality product. Put it in a Sage and I'm sold. VG10 is great but again, not my grail steel. Make a sprint of something cool and funky and I put the blinders on.

I love steel snob sprints. Having something in CTS-20cp or S90v would be awesome someday. That said, I'll take a Dodo or Lil Temp2 in CPM-S30v and won't make a peep!

[Ankerson]

As far as just sharpening goes using the correct equipment the High Alloy steels can be easy to sharpen.

S30V with a good HT is great stuff for a working steel. :cool:

S90V vs S30V... Well S90V will hold an edge a lot longer, although S30V will continue to cut for a very long time due to the working edge.

For people who really use their knives S30V is great and will perform well.

[unit]

As far as just sharpening goes using the correct equipment the High Alloy steels can be easy to sharpen.

+1

It is like hammering nails. If you have a tack hammer, it is going to take a while to drive framing nails. When you use the right tools most jobs seem easier.

[Handwrecker]

S30V is actually one of my favorite steels. It's not that hard to sharpen and hold and edge well enough for most purposes. I can get my S30V blades easily scary sharp and though it loses that fine edge fast, it does hold that working edge for a long time and keeps on cutting.

I find that it a good all around steel with not many shortcomings.

Agreed