To Choil or not to Choil?

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

How does it bite you? I have a Persistence and I open and close that thing hundreds of times and I haven't come close to the edge getting anywhere near to cutting me and I don't even look at the the knife when closing it. The only way I could see that even possibly happening is if your blade is really loose, you push the lock across with your thumb as far back as you can on the liner, then try to flip it towards you to close it.

[dj moonbat]

My only "choil mandatory" knife was an Urban. It never bothered me a bit. But I would imagine that it would depend on several factors, including especially the position of the thumb ramp and the position of one's pinky (e.g., the Dragonfly imposes not just an index finger on the choil, but the pinky behind where the pommel would usually be, but the Urban does not.)

[The Deacon]

I like Spyderco's medium/large knives that don't force you into the grip. If I can drop back into a traditional saber grip or choke up that's the best of both worlds. Knives like the Stretch for example.

Small knives with a deep choil, like the Lava, are pretty cool since they are usually dedicated to fine detailed tasks rather than reach.

The problem with choil knives for me is that you often sacrifice some cutting edge in a normal grip the cutout (with jimping usually) acts as parachute while cutting. You're breezing though a material and it hits that spot screeching to a halt. I even have experienced this with my Stretch but the Manix2 has much less true edge and even a more severe "stop".

What are your thoughts?

I strongly prefer knives with a usable 50/50 choil and have reached the point where I hardly ever carry a knife which lacks one. Can't say I recall ever experiencing the "parachute" effect you mention. Definitely never had it happen with a Stretch, and I rarely use forward grip on them. Only time I've experienced something like that was while using knives with blades that have a sharpening choil.

I guess, like the glass being either half empty or half full, whether you're sacrificing cutting edge or gaining potential grip area without increasing closed length depends on your perspective. I prefer to see it as the later. And, for me, there's also the safety factor when closing the knife. I like having the option of being able to depress the lock, "shake" the knife, allow the blade half of the choil and my index finger to act as half stop, then shift my grip to finish closing the knife.

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[jackknifeh]

I wouldn't buy or not buy a knife based on choils or not. I never had a pocket knife with a choil until I bought Spyderco knives. I only bought inexpensive knives ($20 or less) all my life. I remember thinking how I would like a knife with up to 4 choils. So, for whatever reason I just like the feel of choils. No concern about loosing edge length, safety or anything else. I just think they are comfortable. That's for my cutting needs though. For different types of detailed cutting I can see where specialized grips would be desired which may mean choils are wanted or maybe not wanted.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

This may be a stupid question but I'll ask anyway. Does 50/50 choil mean half the choil is handle and half is tang? If that's true, from the picture the Terzuola looks like it has about a 60/40 choil (60% handle) and my Manix2 looks like 50/50. Is that right?

Jack

[The Deacon]

This may be a stupid question but I'll ask anyway. Does 50/50 choil mean half the choil is handle and half is tang? If that's true, from the picture the Terzuola looks like it has about a 60/40 choil (60% handle) and my Manix2 looks like 50/50. Is that right?

Jack

No Jack, you're over thinking this. The term 50/50 choil is used a bit more generically, to represent any design with a usable forward finger position located partly on the blade tang and partly on the handle and smoothly arced. It does not have to be a perfect 50% on each, although it will usually be somewhat close to that. I would not, for example consider the Bradley to have one, since its forward finger position is almost totally in the handle.

[jackknifeh]

No Jack, you're over thinking this. The term 50/50 choil is used a bit more generically, to represent any design with a usable forward finger position located partly on the blade tang and partly on the handle and smoothly arced. It does not have to be a perfect 50% on each, although it will usually be somewhat close to that. I would not, for example consider the Bradley to have one, since its forward finger position is almost totally in the handle.

Thanks. One more stupid question out of the way. :D

Jack

[wrdwrght]

I strongly prefer knives with a usable 50/50 choil and have reached the point where I hardly ever carry a knife which lacks one. Can't say I recall ever experiencing the "parachute" effect you mention. Definitely never had it happen with a Stretch, and I rarely use forward grip on them. Only time I've experienced something like that was while using knives with blades that have a sharpening choil.

I guess, like the glass being either half empty or half full, whether you're sacrificing cutting edge or gaining potential grip area without increasing closed length depends on your perspective. I prefer to see it as the later. And, for me, there's also the safety factor when closing the knife. I like having the option of being able to depress the lock, "shake" the knife, allow the blade half of the choil and my index finger to act as half stop, then shift my grip to finish closing the knife.

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There goes Paul, again, taunting us with his Chaparral. :D

[dj moonbat]

There goes Paul, again, taunting us with his Chaparral. :D

I was just about to say the same thing. What a sweet looking knife.

[The Deacon]

Sorry guys, I feel guilty, but I love the darn thing too much to put it aside.

Thanks. One more stupid question out of the way. :D

Jack

Look on the bright side Jack, at least none of yours have been turned into a sticky thread. :o



Not yet anyway. :p

[gull wing]

Deathby,
See Deacon's pic's, that's how I close. That's how i get bitten. Yeah, it's not smart.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Ah yes with that line closing that way would be an issue. I close mine with the sharp edge facing up, disengage the lock, use my index finger to push the blade about half way closed, then flip it edge down and use my finger to fully close it. Sort of the reverse of what Paul has posted.

Though I close my choil knives the way he has posted.

[dj moonbat]

My lockback knives I close by:

sticking index finger in the spider hole;
thumbing the lock loose;
index fingering the blade toward closed position;
finishing the job by palming the knife, closing with index finger.

[Pneumothorax]

Im a fan of choils. I like the versatility it give the knife to be able to choke up on it - which is useful in many situations. They also make closing the knife one handed 'safer'. I dont mind giving up some blade since I for the most part dont need big blades. Problem is you get used to grabbing a knife by the choil and the next time you grab a non-choil knife and instinctively do that...not good. Just did that the other day with my Cento. Fortunately, I didnt grip it that hard before I figured out there really wasnt a choil...this isnt why I prefer choils, just a commentary.

[The Deacon]

My lockback knives I close by:

sticking index finger in the spider hole;
thumbing the lock loose;
index fingering the blade toward closed position;
finishing the job by palming the knife, closing with index finger.

Learn something new every day. Never tried closing one like that before. I'd definitely need to practice more, but it does seem to work quite well. Thanks. :)

[numb]

I do not like choils on anything bigger than the Lava. Not since I cut of some tendons and muscles in my fingers trying to use a knife with a choil after being awake for 48 h. Now I prefer knives with a nice guard, idiot proof is the thing for me :) . And yes Im going to buy the Junior...

[dj moonbat]

Learn something new every day. Never tried closing one like that before. I'd definitely need to practice more, but it does seem to work quite well. Thanks. :)

Yet another reason to prefer knives with a big round hole in the blade. It took a while for it to feel natural; now I can do it without looking.

[Lonehunter]

I can live with the 50/50 ones if I really have too. But in general I hate choils. Give me edge please. I use knives on the job and many of my hobbies such as hunting and camping as well as general stuff around the house.

I own knives with them such as Striders and a XM-18 which have large choils. I can never remember choking up on a knife blade for "detail" work. heres my thought just put the edge down to the handle then my hand is just as close to the edge as if i had a choil more so then my striders because of the sharping choil as well.

I have knives I love yet hate because of them, some are more like a spoon, giant handle and unsharpened blade small part that is edge,which to me IS the knife.

[dj moonbat]

So, having thoroughly resolved this choil issue, maybe we can move on to "what's the best locking mechanism."

[Knifewing]

I find that the knives I carry and use most frequently have pronounced choils: Caly 3, Para 1, Dragonfly G-10, and Cat. I like my Delica 4 G-10 and FFG, but they just don't feel as comfortable, secure, and as much of an extension of my hand while in use.