Is a Valloton a flick knife????? Australian Customs

sharpkunt · #1

Hi all,

I live in Australia and recently purchased two knives online from the States.

The first was a gift for a friend in the Special Forces, a fixed blade, the wicked Spyderco Warrior. The second was the Spyderco Vallotton which I purchased for myself. (Who wouldn’t want a Vallotton in their collection!?)

The knives were held up in customs for 2-3 weeks, and then when the mail finally arrived, I received only the warrior and a leaflet stating that an item has been confiscated as it was deemed illegal for importation into Australia. (the vallotton)

I called Australian Customs today and spoke to the lady responsible for black flagging my blade. The nice lady (and she was nice about it) has classified my Valloton as a "flick knife". I explained that similar knives are for sale in shops in Australia, this fell on deaf ears. It was her view that it was a flick knife as she was able to open the knife with one hand and that deems it a flick knife and there was no changing her mind. The fact is that it’s a sub hilt folder, not an automatic or assisted opening knife.

On the Australian customs web site it defines a flick knife as......
"Knives that can be opened with gravity or centrifugal force and/or pressure applied to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife"

I have not physically handled the Valloton.( although I have watched all reviews online) Does this knife fall into the category of a flick knife as described on the Australian Customs web site??

Please help me with some comments fellow knife lovers, surly the thumb stud/ locking lugs on the blade can’t be deemed as the button on the handle. I very much doubt this blade could be deployed with a flick of the wrist (centrifugal force)

I’m in disbelief that an aggressive double edged fixed blade like the warrior is allowed into the country and a folder isn’t.

Any comments on the topic would be most appreciated, positive or negative for my cause, to be honest I’m just baffled that I can buy a similar knife in the local shop but yet can’t buy it online and import it. Can someone please explain to me why?? Am I missing something here??

:confused:

Donut · #2

Some dealers will tighten a pivot screw before shipping knives. If you can find a dealer who will do it, I think this will help you with customs.

phaust · #3

"Knives that can be opened with gravity or centrifugal force"

=

"If you get a knife sent to you, we're going to shake it as hard as we can, and if it opens, it's a flick knife."

Like Donut said, the thing to do is have the dealer tighten the pivot a lot before shipping it.

R.S.R · #4

The Vallotton is most definately NOT a flick knife.
I would speak to her supervisor as she is not interpreting the the rules correctly.
Ask if they can put in writing where is the button,spring or devise on the Vallotton?
It is a folder for Gods sake!

sharpkunt · #5

Thanks for the tip.......... so is it your opinion that this blade could be opened with gravity or centrifugal force??? If so Im happy to except the law and customs judgement not to allowing it importation. The law sux, no doubt, but the women at customs is just doing her job.
Personally I feel that this has been incorectly classified. The vallottons a folder, not a flick knife. Thoughts??

sharpkunt · #6

Thanks RSR! Will call them again tomorrow

jackknifeh · #7

sharpkunt wrote:Thanks for the tip.......... so is it your opinion that this blade could be opened with gravity or centrifugal force??? If so Im happy to except the law and customs judgement not to allowing it importation. The law sux, no doubt, but the women at customs is just doing her job.
Personally I feel that this has been incorectly classified. The vallottons a folder, not a flick knife. Thoughts??

So, does that mean you loose the knife and the money it cost? What actually happens to the knife? If it's considered illegal do they say you have committed a crime like it would be if it were drugs? I've heard of this happening and it stinks every time. Especially when it's an individual's judgement call.

Jack

markg · #8

They will keep the knife and you are out the money. They will not return the knife to the shipper so you can get a refund. You are just out. However I don't think you are guilty of a crime.

From listening to other people, you can't fight Australian customs. Know a guy from another forum who has been fighting for a long time, sunk tens of thousands of dollars and still has not won.

gbelleh · #9

Sorry to hear that. It's a shame that they can use ambiguous laws to steal perfectly legal items from citizens.

My Vallotton is not very easily flicked open at all, but if she's using 1-handed opening as the only criteria for confiscation, that definitely sounds wrong.

cckw · #10

*Edited* Unnecessary political comment.

JayTeeEmEm · #11

There's a couple of threads on this topic, just use the search function and key word Australian and you'll see the issues faced on the topic of Customs definitions of what will pass inspection. Nice choice on the knives,bit suss on your choice of forum name,not sure how you slipped that one past the Spydie Crew.
Welcome to the forum.

DeathBySnooSnoo · #12

From what I hear this is not uncommon with Australian customs and there is nearly no point at all in fighting it. Even though it is entirely bogus. Now I like my blades fairly snug anyway, but there is no way at all that my Valloton could be flicked, maybe if you were as strong as two men and had unbreakable wrists...but the only way I can see the Valloton being flickable is if the pivot were left extremely loose.

tonydahose · #13

that blows, ask Dan about this, he has had lots of experience with the AU customs.

edit: this is Dan's old screen name, i forgot what the new one is.

Sithus1966 · #14

Too bad you can't get it shipped to you in pieces, the blade separate from the handle.

vic · #15

exactly the same as here in the uk, people have fully legal folders confiscated by customs all the time, they see something shiny and if they want to they steal it

wsdavies · #16

You guys have the same idiots there as we do here, just more per capita. Ridiculous.

O,just,O · #17

It is a flick knife if they say so. If they say your pet cat, your garden shed or a helicopter is a flick knife, then it is a flick knife. You can never lay a punch on the shadow that you are boxing.
I, like you cannot believe the warrior got in, it's got the double edge :confused: .
We used to have the option of return to sender but that recently seems to have dissapeared.
I'm a little flick knife short & stout, carry me for nefarious reasons & flick me out.
O.

razorsharp · #18

What i'd do:
I would ring up again,...
ask if she can find the button or spring device,...
talk to her supervisor,...
recite this :" A flick knife (or other similar device) that has a blade which opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife.",...
and get her to look at this thread, because we all think its bogus...
I hate how a few baddies can do a crime with mainly A KITCHEN KNIFE and get folders banned/restricted, if someone wants to kill another person, they're going to do it some way or another, sharp pencil? concealed gun? changing the law doesn't do jack s__t and just ruins it for the good people.

monsterdog · #19

Same in other countries, a friend of mine in northern Europe had a small (sub 2" blade) fixed knife he was going to use for fishing trips confiscated and a $1500 fine because the sheath had a hole on the bottom and came with a neck chain.

The way anti-knife countries handle their customs is just like that, if they deem your item a problem, then it is, nothing you say will change their mind, because if you win against them they suddenly have to be much more careful in the future or other people could get their "flick knives" through as well just by calling them out.

Then when 50000 folding/kitchen/fishing knives have been confiscated, your current government can publish a report stating how they took 50000 dangerous weapons off the street and dumb people will vote for them because they seem to care about their safety.

Roan · #20

As an Aussie who imports spyderco's I wil say this:

Unfortunatly, once they have decided it's a flick knife, you won't change thier mind. It would undermine them and what they stand for if the decision were over ruled and set precedents they don't want. This is the Austraian gov't we are talking about.

The trick is not to get it confiscated in the first place....

I have found Australia post's customs agents to be very strict. Anything coming in via Federal post will be overly analysed.
On the other hand some International couriers own customs agents are quite leniant. It's all I use now.
So far I have not had anything confiscated by avoiding USPS shipping. (Over 15 knives imported... all spyderco folders bar 1.). I am certain some of the knives I have received would certainly be considered gravity openers (e.g manix2 and para 2) had they been checked by Aus Post customs.