Dull knives sharpening - are the diamong rods sufficient ?

[chipdouglas]

Hi,

I have the Spyderco tri-angle sharpener with the fine and medium stones. To maintain any of my Spyderco knives, it does a fine job, but on other non Spyderco knives, some of which are dull it doesn't seem to be enough. I'm thinking of getting the diamond rods, but after looking at some online reviews, there seems to be some disappointment about them.

This forum being one of the best on the web if not the best, I thought I'd ask you for advice.

Besides the Spyderdo sharpmaker, I'm aware of Lansky and DMT so far as sharpening systems go.

Thanks so much.

[Pneumothorax]

I have the diamond rods and have generally used them to reprofile blades or get really dull blades sharp again. I have too hard of a time doing reprofiling with just the medium blades. The diaomnd rods definitely work, but I would like to see a grit in between the diamond and medium rods since it takes me a looooong time to get the diamond scratches out with the medium rods. Now, I will be the first to admit that Im not a sharpening wizard, so there's probably better advice out there for you, but I can answer the basic questio - yes, the diamond rods will get your dull knives sharp quicker than the medium rods.

Also, I only use the Sharpmaker, so cannot comment on the other systems.

[chipdouglas]

I have the diamond rods and have generally used them to reprofile blades or get really dull blades sharp again. I have too hard of a time doing reprofiling with just the medium blades. The diaomnd rods definitely work, but I would like to see a grit in between the diamond and medium rods since it takes me a looooong time to get the diamond scratches out with the medium rods. Now, I will be the first to admit that Im not a sharpening wizard, so there's probably better advice out there for you, but I can answer the basic questio - yes, the diamond rods will get your dull knives sharp quicker than the medium rods.

Also, I only use the Sharpmaker, so cannot comment on the other systems.

Thanks for your comments - on average, how long does it take you to make a dull blade sharp again using the diamond rods ?

[gt_mule]

I like sandpaper placed on a strip of leather glued to a piece of hardwood. This is separate from your strop.

220 is a good place to start, 150 for heavy re-profiling (too much pressure and it will take forever to get the grind marks out). Then a standard progression of 320 --> 600 --> 800 --> 1000 --> 2000 --> Loaded Strop --> Naked Strop.

I like my Sharpmaker for certain things, but use the method above a lot more.

[gt_mule]

2XTap

[Joshua J.]

Even if you use the Sharpmaker for final polish and daily touch-ups, I suggest learning how to set the bevel with a bench stone. Coarse grit benchstones are cheap, readily available, and in a pinch can give you a working edge really quick.

[Pneumothorax]

Thanks for your comments - on average, how long does it take you to make a dull blade sharp again using the diamond rods ?

I dont know, but its a lot of strokes. It aint the 20 on the corner, 20 on the flat for regular sharpening like Sal does in the video. I would say easily in the 50 stroke range. Could be more. Kinda like how many licks does it take to get the center of a tootsie pop. :D Sorry that is so vague, but its not that much fun to me.

I needt to learn what gt mule and joshua do if Im going to make a habit out of this. :o

[chipdouglas]

I dont know, but its a lot of strokes. It aint the 20 on the corner, 20 on the flat for regular sharpening like Sal does in the video. I would say easily in the 50 stroke range. Could be more. Kinda like how many licks does it take to get the center of a tootsie pop. :D Sorry that is so vague, but its not that much fun to me.

I needt to learn what gt mule and joshua do if Im going to make a habit out of this. :o

Haha, yeah I can understand.

[chipdouglas]

Even if you use the Sharpmaker for final polish and daily touch-ups, I suggest learning how to set the bevel with a bench stone. Coarse grit benchstones are cheap, readily available, and in a pinch can give you a working edge really quick.

Do you have any suggestions so far as brands go ? I see you're in Canada too, so maybe you might know of a few good online places ?

Thanks :)

[chipdouglas]

Even if you use the Sharpmaker for final polish and daily touch-ups, I suggest learning how to set the bevel with a bench stone. Coarse grit benchstones are cheap, readily available, and in a pinch can give you a working edge really quick.

This store has some nice stones : http://www.paulsfinest.com/Naniwa-Super ... ng-Stones/

Not sure what grit to get though - I'd like to avoid scratching the blade up so much so that I can't get rid of the scratches using the medium stones on the Sharpmaker.

Or should I just forget about the Sharpmaker ?

Thanks.

[jackknifeh]

I don't have a Sharpmaker but do have the coarse and fine Spyderco stones so I'm familiar with their performance. I don't know anything about the diamond rods that Spyderco sells but DMT has outstanding diamond products. I would highly recommend them if you want a variety of grits in diamond stones. I've used them quite a bit and recommend them to everyone. I think two diamond grit rods for the Sharpmaker would be a definate plus for that system. I've seen a couple of comments about the diamond rod being so much coarser than the coarse ceramic rod. (I think Spyderco only has one diamond grit rod).

Diamond sharpening product require a little additional knowledge about how to use them to get the best performance (like other different products designed to do the same thing).

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Congress tools is a good place to get silicon carbide, aluminum oxide, ceramic stones, etc. at pretty reasonable prices in a lot of sizes and configurations.

You can get SiC stones at lower grits that can be clipped to your sharpmaker and those SiC stones will eat metal pretty fast. Even the high alloy metals. Probably only diamond stones remove metal faster but you can get a good selection of grits from Congress Tools. I think I also read Phil Wilson post that SiC will cut even vanadium carbides cleanly.

[chipdouglas]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I've also noticed that I can't seem to get my Endura as razor sharp as say, my Tenacious, which has a full flat grind - I'm pretty sure this has to do with blade geometry - other than my Endura, all of my other Spyderco knives have full flat grind and they're ever so sharp.

When comparing knives sharpeness, I use the proverbial paper cut test.

[jackknifeh]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I've also noticed that I can't seem to get my Endura as razor sharp as say, my Tenacious, which has a full flat grind - I'm pretty sure this has to do with blade geometry - other than my Endura, all of my other Spyderco knives have full flat grind and they're ever so sharp.

When comparing knives sharpeness, I use the proverbial paper cut test.

The grind has nothing to do with how sharp a knife edge is but I believe the grind can give the illusion of a different level of sharpness when testing sharpenss by slicing paper, cardboard and other things. I'm guessing your Endura has a saber grind which will cause more drag when slicing through material like cardboard because the blade is trying to seperate the cut pieces. A FFG blade won't "drag" as much because the blade thickens more gradually than a saber grind and that will give the illusion of a sharper blade when the very edge is just as sharp on both knives. To test the actual sharpness of the edge try test that don't involve the entire blade. The arm hair cutting test will tell you how sharp the very edge is because the only part of the blade used is the very edge. Also there is something called "thin behind the edge" which will effect the "feeling" of sharpness when cutting thicker material. I have a Manix2 with a FFG blade and another with a hollow grind blade. The hollow grind blade is thinner behind the edge than the FFG blade. That means the metal is thinner where you are sharpening the knife. A thinner blade will always cut better than a thicker one.

Try testing sharpness of your Endura by cutting something very thin so only the edge hits the material and use the same test with your FFG blades.

Jack

[chipdouglas]

The grind has nothing to do with how sharp a knife edge is but I believe the grind can give the illusion of a different level of sharpness when testing sharpenss by slicing paper, cardboard and other things. I'm guessing your Endura has a saber grind which will cause more drag when slicing through material like cardboard because the blade is trying to seperate the cut pieces. A FFG blade won't "drag" as much because the blade thickens more gradually than a saber grind and that will give the illusion of a sharper blade when the very edge is just as sharp on both knives. To test the actual sharpness of the edge try test that don't involve the entire blade. The arm hair cutting test will tell you how sharp the very edge is because the only part of the blade used is the very edge. Also there is something called "thin behind the edge" which will effect the "feeling" of sharpness when cutting thicker material. I have a Manix2 with a FFG blade and another with a hollow grind blade. The hollow grind blade is thinner behind the edge than the FFG blade. That means the metal is thinner where you are sharpening the knife. A thinner blade will always cut better than a thicker one.

Try testing sharpness of your Endura by cutting something very thin so only the edge hits the material and use the same test with your FFG blades.

Jack

Nice post. That all made sense to me.

[chipdouglas]

To test the actual sharpness of the edge try test that don't involve the entire blade. The arm hair cutting test will tell you how sharp the very edge is because the only part of the blade used is the very edge.

How do I get a knife to be hair popping sharp using the Spyderco sharpmaker ?

[chuck_roxas45]

How do I get a knife to be hair popping sharp using the Spyderco sharpmaker ?

You can get hairsplitting edges with the brown stones. What is takes is practice, attention, reading post here, and watching YouTube vids for ideas and inspiration. And, practice, practice, practice. You'll get there.

[chipdouglas]

You can get hairsplitting edges with the brown stones. What is takes is practice, attention, reading post here, and watching YouTube vids for ideas and inspiration. And, practice, practice, practice. You'll get there.

I've been practicing quite a bit lately - I seem to have noticed that I get a sharper edge using the corners of the brown stone rather than the flats - have you also noticed this ?

[chuck_roxas45]

I've been practicing quite a bit lately - I seem to have noticed that I get a sharper edge using the corners of the brown stone rather than the flats - have you also noticed this ?

I won't move on from the corners of the brown until I get the sharpness I want. The other steps will just be refining the edge.

[Denix]

I use a very simple trick when my knives are dull. I wrap sandpaper around the brown rods. I cut a strip of sandpaper just wide enough to wrap around, then I put some scotch tape along the backing of the sandpaper, wrap around and tape together. I can easily bring 6-7 knives back to life using all 3 sides. Quick and efficient. Then I remove the sandpaper and use the stones as normal.

Guy.